Thread: Asian Carp.. Kentucky Lake how bad?

Relevant (short) article on the topic:

Biologists are making progess against Asian Carp

Any dead Asian carp is good in my book but from reading that link it looks like they simply netted the carp, same thing everyone here is advocating. I was hoping for a biological solution. We had 2 massive kills of silvers below KY dam a couple of years ago. Lots of conspiracy theorists like myself think there was very likely a biological experiment going on there.

Originally Posted by mrdux

I'll get by and talk to Darrell. He just lost his Mother so he may be hard to catch for a few days.

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I live next to Darrel, he has talked to several politicians and has given several talks on the subject. I will try to catch him and see if he would come to the Shin-dig.

Here are some facts and opinions based on what I know. I will admit though, even though I am an avid fisherman, grew up near the lakes, have two college degrees in biology/fisheries, and been working with the fisheries of KY and Barkley lakes for the past 28 years, I am not always right. So I like to hear what you have to say. Some of you fish a lot more than I do. However, when it comes to the biology of the whole ecosystem, I might see a different picture than most.
If you don’t like long answers. My short answer is that yes Asian Carp are a problem in the lakes. The problem is growing. Commercial harvest is currently the best method to reduce the population of carp. Despite changes in your fishing (catching), Asian carp have not impacted the sport fishery to a level that is detectable by our monitoring.

Now here is my attempt to answer some of the questions I read in this forum.

This year seems to be worse, are the silver carp numbers up because of a good spawn? Yes, KDFW documented a good spawn of silver carp in 2015. We have known about adult carp being in the lake for several years. These adults most likely got into the lake through the locks at the dams. However, last July (2015) we were catching small (2-3”) silver carp in cast nets during July in the backs of embayments amongst the schools of shad. We also collected them in the tailwaters below the dams. We know they had a good spawn, but not that they actually spawned in the lakes. They are a riverine fish that require current for their spawn to hatch. It is possible that the spawn happened in the river, and the small fish entered the lake also through the locks. This summer it is likely that more people have noticed 12-15 inch silver carp jumping in the back of embayments. These are carp from the 2015 spawn. We have not seen any small carp this summer, therefore suggesting no spawn, or possibly a very weak spawn in the lakes.

What are the realistic predictions for the future in regards to Asian carp and sport fish? Since the early 2000’s KDFW has been catching Asian carp in Kentucky and Barkley lakes. The sampling was not standardized, therefore not usable in conclusively indicating the population of Asian carp has increased. Based on reports from angler sightings, more people are becoming aware of the carp, and more anglers are reporting their sightings of them. Commercial harvest has increased on the lakes as the market for them has increased. Although the increase in the population is not documented by anyone measure, it is obvious that their numbers have increased in the lakes. The 2015 spawn will likely increase anglers sightings and commercial harvest in the next few years.

KDFW has a lot of data on sport fish populations in Kentucky and Barkley lakes all the way back to the early 80’s. Data prior to the 80’s is inconsistent to more recent data collection methods. First and foremost the sport fish populations in our lakes are driven by spawning. Our regulations are set to maximize what we have. We attempt to manage for quality fish. Over harvest is usually not a concern given our creel limits. The good to poor fishing anglers often perceive is due to the natural cycles caused by spawning success. It is evident from the 30 years of data that we have; sport fish population’s cycle naturally. So, there are good year classes and poor year classes. In the years that follow these year classes, fishing success of anglers may either increase or decrease. This is normal. Any declines in the sport fish populations that we have seen in the last few years are still within the ranges of normal cycling caused from good or poor year classes.

The growth and condition of bass and crappie have not shown any decline based on the data we collect. The condition (length versus weight) of crappie was better in 2015 (90.1) than measured in 1985 (84.5). The condition of largemouth bass was 102 in 2015, highest it’s been in the last 30 years. The average growth of an age 4 largemouth bass in 1986 was 12.6 inches. In more recent years it was 15.4 inches. The average growth prior to 2000 for an age 2 white crappie was 9.7 inches. In years since 2000, the average growth has been 10.7 inches. Is there the potential for the Asian carp to eventually effect the sport fish? Yes. Have we seen any yet? No.

Were the crappie numbers down the last few years caused by Asian carp? No, poor year classes produced during the flooding of 2011 and low water in 2012 are the cause. Better year classes were seen in 2013 and 2014.

I have said in meetings and presentations that based on the data we collect on sport fish, the sport fish populations have not been impacted. Some might interpret this as me saying the Asian carp are not a problem. I am not saying that. The carp are a problem. But they are not causing a decline in sport fish populations yet.

Overall, are the carp impacting angler harvest? I might have said yes, but our creel surveys suggest otherwise. I have to go with the facts and not my perception of my fishing success. In 1999 anglers on Lake Barkley caught 0.9 crappie per hour as compared to 1.7 in 2012. In 1999 anglers on Lake Barkley caught 0.1 redear per hour as compared to 0.4 in 2012. In 1999 anglers on Lake Barkley caught 0.5 largemouth bass per hour as compared to 1.3 in 2012. (a creel survey is in progress on Lake Barkley this year) In 1998 on Kentucky Lake, crappie anglers caught 0.85 crappie per hour as compared to 0.86 in 2015. In 1998 on Kentucky Lake, bass anglers caught 0.3 bass per hour as compared to 0.6 in 2015. The catch of bluegill and redear in 2015 was 2.9 fish/hour as compared to 0.6 fish/hour in 1998. It would be my opinion that the carp affect harvest to some degree by displacing sport fish. The particular places (like a ledge or drop off) you might typically fish for sport fish, might be over crowded with carp.

Why are efforts to commercialize the carp going slow? Although, in the past three years, the fish markets have increased their utilization of carp, but growth of the market has been slow. As with any market there are supply and demand issues. The price has been low, which has not enticed a lot of anglers to go specifically after the carp. Right now the commercial angler is getting about $0.10-$0.18 per pound. Supply has been inconsistent, because the carp move with weather and water conditions. Some commercial anglers have indicted the carp are harder to catch now than they were a few years ago. The demand for a fresh product is sometimes hard to meet. There is a high demand for these carp in China, however getting them over there in a fresh condition is challenging.

What are the biologist defense plans against growing populations of carp? Commercial netting is currently the best method to catching large numbers of carp. Even given the number of carp in the lakes and river, it is still tough to catch them. Biologist are working with commercial anglers to improve harvest methods, while maintaining a low by-catch of sport fish. Grant money has been secured to help subsidize the commercial anglers, and incentivize them to harvest more carp from the lakes. We continue to work with the fish markets to promote carp products. We have had sampling efforts to just go out and remove what we could catch. There are currently telemetry projects ongoing to track the movement of carp in the rivers and lakes, and between the rivers and lakes. Methods to standardize the sampling for carp are being worked on. At the administrative level, we have traveled with other state representative to Washington DC to help secure additional funding to combat the carp issue, and promote the awareness of the problem to congressmen/women.

Below Barkley Dam are there millions of baby Asian carp swimming along the shoreline? No, we have sampled the tailwaters multiple times this summer and have not documented any large schools of small Asian carp. Each of our sampling efforts has documented large schools of shad. These are the large schools of fish that anglers are seeing. In 2015 we documented a large spawn of silver carp. The last time we documented such a large spawn was in 2010. In the years in between we sampled the same way, but never documented a large spawn.

Is the carp problem getting bad a lot quicker than KDFW is letting on? No, we are not in panic mode, we are trying to address the problems of Asian carp as logically as we can. In the past three years the staff working on Asian carp for the Department has grown. During this time instead of these staff working out of Frankfort, they were actually hired to work out of the Murray office. This puts them closer to the problems. The perception that KDFW does not care about the growing carp problem is untrue. A lot of effort has went into understanding and utilizing our resources to control the problem. We are not looking to have sustainable yield, we want them gone. Actually Kentucky is one the more proactive states in the region when it comes to the carp problem. Our fisheries director has made numerous trips to Washington DC to speak with politicians about the carp. The Department has sent staff to numerous regional meetings to be updated on others states progress in this battle against carp, while also updating other states with actions KY has taken. This interstate cooperation is essential since the carp have no water boundaries.

Are these large schools of fish I see on my DI and SI graphs silver carp? Very likely. One of the problems we anticipated with the carp is that they have a “bully” mentality. As a school of carp moves along a ledge they potential cause other sport fish to relocate. These large schools of carp do making finding sport fish harder along the ledges.

Did KDFW kill the carp below Barkley Dam a few years ago? The large Asian carp die off that occurred in 2014 below Barkley Dam was not caused by anything the KDFW or the USCOE did. The ultimate conclusion to that die off was death by gas bubble disease. This occurs when the gases (Nitrogen, Oxygen, and Carbon Dioxide - air) concentration in the water is so high that it gets into the blood stream of the fish. There were still many unanswered questions, but if we could simulate the same conditions again, and only kill Asian carp, we would have already been doing it. During the kill below Barkley, it was estimate the almost 500,000 silver carp were died. However within weeks, silver carp were once again very dense in the tailwaters.

Seems all the Department cares about is elk? I can honestly say, my fisheries budget for the Purchase Region is not impacted by restoration projects in eastern KY, or any other wildlife issues across the state. Wildlife and fisheries funding is two separate things.

How many pounds of carp were harvested during the carp rodeo on the lakes? The carp rodeo that we held in 2013 on Kentucky and Barkley lakes resulted in a harvest of 83,000 pounds of carp, and not the 200,000 report in this forum. Since that time though, there has been three processors established, and their facilities have led to the harvest of over 1.2 million pounds of Asian carp in 2015; over 800,000 pounds from Kentucky and Barkley lakes.

Are the carp good to eat? There still seems to be a lot of skeptics about eating them. I suggest you fillet one up and cook it next time you have one jump in your boat or you catch one. Or you can try eating KY Blue Snapper at the Freight House Restaurant in Paducah. This is not promoting them, I just hear several people talking about it recently. There is no such thing as KY Blue Snapper, its Asian carp. Here is a random quote off of TripAdvisor: Read Reviews, Compare Prices & Book about the restaurant.
“You will not be disappointed if you enjoy fresh food, cooked creatively. We had the shrimp and grits and the blue snapper. Seasoned well, presented nicely, good portion size- They kindlya accommodated my food allergy. I highly recommend this restaurant.”

There is an old wise tale of not being able to eat your problem away. It is not true. This problem we can, but you have to try them. :

Thanks for clearing that up for us, Paul !! We appreciate ya'lls efforts, and are grateful that you are a member of this site.

Paul, thanks for checking in and posting.

Paul, have heard you speak in person at two different events and read numerous posts by your hand and enjoyed each one. Your responses are factual, informative, data supportive, and professionally compiled. Thank you for your time and effort to the sportsman of kentucky and members of this site.

Thank you for this information Paul.


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