Thread: Friendly discussion about Bream Limits

I don't want to cause a knock-down drag-out argument so hopefully this will be taken in the non-confrontational, purely educational spirit it is intended...And, if the water you're fishing is your own private pond, completely disregard this.

There have been multiple articles published just in the past few months, among them a recent one by In-Fisherman magazine, on the harmful, often permanent, negative effect overharvest of keeper-size bluegill can have on the size structure of a bluegill population. It was indeed believed at one time by scientists that bluegill could not be overfished, and that removing large numbers of them, even from larger lakes, could do nothing but help. Now there is ample evidence, from several studies done in several states including Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, South Dakota, etc., that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that overharvest by anglers is permanently reducing the average size structure of bluegill in public lakes all across the U.S. Several states have already enacted regulations informed by this research, including Illinois, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and Wisconsin; those regulations usually include a minimum length, and a drastically-reduced creel limit. Here is a recent article that covers the science behind why overharvest kills bluegill size - there are many more:

Why Everything You Know About Bluegill Management is Wrong – Cool Green Science

Here is basically the same science explained in a more prestigious publication i.e. In-Fisherman:

Managing Bluegills - In-Fisherman

Please, please know that I have already argued with multiple posters on multiple other forums, including this one a couple years ago, about this, and never in any of those instances have I failed to have been personally insulted while at the same time having my seventeen years of knowledge as a professional fisheries manager being entirely discounted along with the reams of scientific research that has been done by fisheries scientists on this subject; please know that I mean it when I say I really don't want to argue, trade personal attacks, etc.

All I want to say is this: there was a time in this country when it was socially acceptable to keep a stringerful of big largemouth or smallmouth or walleye. At some point enough anglers realized that that was a pretty selfish thing to do, and that fisheries around the country were being negatively impacted by this outlook, and enough anglers stopped doing it that it became socially unacceptable to keep ten largemouth from three to five pounds (or four to six or five to ten) each. I still like to believe that bluegill anglers can have the same consideration for their fellow angler that led to the sea-change in thinking thirty- or forty-odd years ago among bass fishermen, and that there have to be bluegill anglers out there that will actually care when they read what their keeping of a coolerful of bluegill every time out is doing to the resource, and other anglers' ability to enjoy said resource.

I speak from firsthand experience. I would personally have multiple world-class public bluegill lakes to fish within thirty miles of me if it were not for overhavest; and not just me, but every angler who lives within driving distance of those small impoundments would have access to that level of fishing. And there are tens of thousands of ponds and lakes and rivers all across the country that would have bluegill fisheries the like of which most anglers have never dreamed of, if enough anglers began thinking of the future of the resource, and their fellow angler, each time they fished.

For those who would counter that it's legal, not too long ago it was legal in this country to smoke in public, long after there was incontrovertible proof that second-hand smoke was the second leading cause of cancer behind first-hand smoke. If enough anglers in states such as Tennessee, Alabama, etc. demanded that their DNRs actually protect and preserve bluegill fisheries just as they do every other popular freshwater species, regulations would follow.

I agree 100% . I hate to see spawning season come where I've seen folks sit on the beds with bait and clean out the beds . These are the same folks who cant understand why a lake was great one year and be void of big gills for the next 3-4 years .
I've seen it happen in small ponds and larger water reservoirs .
In most lakes it take 4-5 years for a bluegill to grow to decent size .
Kirby

Thanks, Kirby, nice to know I'm not the only one. I really don't think the people keeping too many are bad people - just a bad habit, a way of thinking that hopefully will change so we can all have better fishing.

Agree with ya on catch and release but don't think On the Arkansas river it's a viable thing to do since it spans several states. I have learned the hard way that you can over fish a lake. Now a lot of my fishing is catch and release on the ponds and lakes. But I will keep what I want to eat on that occasion. I have fished the Arkansas river from 100 miles north of home to 100 miles south of my home and still catch the same size gills. While they are not as big as some of the northern states and smaller impoundments catching a trophy on the Arkansas river probably isn't gonna happen for me.

Thanks for posting such a well researched message on the subject of over harvesting. I completely agree with you and wish there were more regulations in place to protect bluegill. It would be great to have to public waters with bluegill the size of those in the ponds you manage. Keep spreading the message and hopefully over time it will catch on with the general public.

Thanks, Rambler. We can only hope. I caught six bluegill that weighed a pound apiece in a one-month period in May 1987 from a 40-acre lake, New Lake, just outside Lewisburg, and heard stories of two-pounders having been caught recently before that. The lake is managed by TWRA, and has no limit on bluegill, and literally a year after I caught the giants, it was over. The same thing happened with another TWRA lake, 46-acre Shellcracker Lake in Williamsport, in 2009 - I didn't catch any pounders, but did catch several close to that, and a year later it was all over. In both instances I heard anglers brag about hauling out boatloads of big bluegill. It's really unconscionable considering how many millions more people there are today who fish public water than there were forty years ago when catch-and-release first starting catching on among bass fishermen.

I am pretty ignorant on what it takes to change regulations. What would be the process on how to go about getting something accomplished for us here in Tennessee and how many people would need to be onboard to have a chance at succeeding?

Originally Posted by Rambler24

I am pretty ignorant on what it takes to change regulations. What would be the process on how to go about getting something accomplished for us here in Tennessee and how many people would need to be onboard to have a chance at succeeding?

I have been working on this for sometime now.....as best as a person who is not a celebrity can work on it. What I mean by that is in TN TWRA puts a lot of stock in opinions of well known fisherman with TV personalities if you understand my meaning. There are many who fish different lakes 3-5 times a week and are a wealth of knowledge about what is going on in a fishery. But it is hard to be heard. TWRA will have a meeting if they are going to recommend changes to a lake...stream....whatever the case may be. The meeting will be public so all can go and have input. But I must tell you that the chance of TWRA doing anything different than what they plan to do, being changed, are slim and none. Notice I said they have a meeting to discuss their plans. They never have meetings open for discussions on what fisherman may see as a want and need of a particular body off water. In my fishing travels I have identified 4 bodies of waters that there should be a need for concern. I will give you my first hand experience of how this has gone. I know the shocking crews for these bodies of water....not personally but have seen them on the waters many times and had lengthy conversations. The bluegill in the Williamsport Lakes are heavily harvested.....20 per day per angler. I have had the biologist tell me many times that if he was a bluegill, and wanted to grow up big and strong the Williamsport Lakes are not the place to do it. Why?......because they never have a chance to get to that 9 and 10 inch mark. Those are very fertile waters there and before the lakes were turned over to the state they produced trophy bluegills on a regular basis. But due to the number of people fishing there since becoming state lakes, there are so many taken out the chance now of 9 and 10 inch fish are rare. There is another example of the lakes at Williamsport. The two main lakes are over stocked with crappie...as a matter of fact TWRA never stocked them with crappie. Some how they got put into the lakes. They are all black nose crappie.....in there by the thousands. TWRA does not want them in there. I have been told that should I catch a legal size fish would I please take everyone of them out that I can legally. This is a TWRA biologist telling me this as he knows they need to be gotten out of there or thinned out dramatically. Catches of 100 crappie a day are the norm...most just under 10 inches....which is the legal length fish. One may catch a limit of 15 legal fish but it would be an all day affair. TWRA does not want them in there yet they will not lower the restrictions....seems odd as other TWRA Lakes with same problem have had reduced length limits and higher creel limits. Do I know more than the biologist....the answer is no. But when the biologist are the one telling you to get the crappie out of there....and that too many bluegill are being harvested you have to ask yourself is he giving the same recommendations to his superiors who then decide what to do or not. Same as Laurel Hill Lake...known for years as trophy bluegill fishery....and to some extent still is...but is on the down hill slide with fewer and fewer trophies showing up. Too many people taking 20 fish a day out. I have been down there and stayed all day and know first hand that in the spring there are two to three thousand fish a day going out that gate for about a 2 month period. The lake is over 300 acres but it can't take that kind of pressure. The same situation exists at VFW Lake. Too much harvesting. I hear so many times from people that TWRA is not political.....nothing could be further from the truth. The commissioners are appointed by the governor....the speaker of the house...the speaker....or head of the senate. That's not political.....sure sounds political. So If you have the ear of a commissioner you might get somewhere...but even then I am not sure how far that would get you. Bluegill and crappie are looked at by so many as a food source. Doesn't come across too good with folks who harvest thousands of those specie each year....to tell them you are reducing it....and in their minds taking food off their table from what many consider to be an unlimited resource. The good news is it will happen.....the bad news is that it will take a long time. It will require the continual decline of the bodies of water that I have mentioned here and then when the very folks who are really the problem start complaining in mass someone will look into it. Up until about 3 years ago I could catch plenty of 9 inch bluegill at VFW...not anymore. Still good fishing and there are plenty of 7 and 8 inch Gills and because I use 2# test and UL rods I can have fun...but nothing close to what it was. There is no easy answer for those of us who would like to see these regs on bluegill changed. I have no problem with people keeping fish but there has to be good management policies in place. I was reluctant to post this as this topic usually starts bad blood and I hope that does not happen. I just will not participate in a flame war on a forum.

Regards