Using Legacy Sonar for Live Sonar

[Rojo]

Well I had to try this as the forward looking sonar transducers I like just seems to start freezing around 200 hours. My last one started freezing at 7 months of service. So what I am experimenting with are older Legacy Equipment (name given by mfg industry). Paying $1500+ for a Live Sonar View for looking at Structure only (this won't work for looking at a fish while hand feeding it a jig commonly referred to as Livescope fishing) seems too high a price for the application I use them for. Also since we are running 2D Sonar it can be rigged with a transducer selector switch. Two or more transducers can be used simply selecting the particular transducer you want. Getting in the weeds a bit, you can't as far as I know switch between 3D transducers without a added Sonar box. The Legacy Humminbird equipment can be rigged with a Humminbird Sonar Switch. Also Humminbird makes Y - Cables so you can split your sonar signals between 2 transducers like a 2D (looking forward) and a 3D (looking down like on the trolling motor). No switch is needed for that just selecting the correct view on the Display.

Here are 2 photos, the first I turn the transducer away from the dock and second I point the transducer at the dock. I'm using a Humminbird Trolling Motor Transducer TM-9-20T or something like that, a 2D 83/200 cheap Dual Beam Transducer for standard sonar. I have it on one of the custom sticks I build for my Livescope customers when I sell a system to them.



You can see in the second picture even the distance is correct and displayed on Top with the depth lines turned on. Now for the settings as I expected to be able to turn on either a Jigging Mode or use the RTS window but could not do either. So I turned the scroll speed to 10, set the view to Clear Scan, Sensitivity is down to 3, distance is set at 15ft, Frequency is set to 200 only, most transducers of any manufacture have a 200 crystal. The tests went out as far as 25ft with the same results. I also shot a video of the first test but need to upload it to YouTube. Hopefully with a little work here (more testing with different combinations) I will discover a even better way to recycle our old equipment and reduce the expenditures associated with purchasing Live Sonar systems unless that's exactly what you want to use it for. Personally I let the Jig Pole talk to my Fingers, I'm not a visual screen watching angler but I know numerous like that and you can't help what turns you on. The problem I am working on is when you arrive at your waypoint seeing exactly where the structure is. You can troll around quit a bit before it shows up on the display, this really eats up time. When landing a fish and you drift off location, the boat turns a bit, you either must mark the structure or have a way to scan to see where its at.

One more thing to add before closing this out, the display changed as fast as I swung the transducer at the structure then away. Basically it is "No Wait", even being a display of History with the scroll speed turned all the way up the display was changing as fast as I moved the transducer. Very easy to determine almost all the information I was buying a $999 transducer to do. More later.

[J White]

This brings back a reminiscence of days long gone. Sharp guys used to tilt the tm mounted transducer on their flashers so you could sweep it and find the brushpile

I kinda miss those days. A Hbird super 30 or 60 was the bomb. I had a Vexilar on my last boat, wasn’t as happy with it. Mainly because it just went blank when you wrapped around and passed zero. I was quite used to and comfortable with seeing my super 30 reading 10 when I was in 40 fow.

Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com

[Rojo]

Did some more research and Jigging Mode is in later model SI Helix units G2/G2N but after reading I don't think it would improve this any. I read a post BobC wrote back in 2015 where he explains it very well. So when I posted a distance setting of 15ft earlier, that is the depth setting and you can increase it but I'm not sure how far till degradation of the return for the task at hand. I went out to 25ft with no problems. Usually a GPS will get you within 15ft. Also the 200kz cone is 20 degrees, almost exactly where the Livescope beam is but its a Cone not a Beam. I will be experimenting with a bent stick base (Most of you know I do Aluminum fabrication) my thoughts are if the cone is 20 degrees and mounting angle of half that or maybe 15 degrees will give a better return for deeper brush piles.

[DockShootinJack]

Definitely interesting

[Rojo]

This is as far as I got this evening, cooking took up a bit of time today. Since the Cone Angle of the Humminbird 2D Dual Beam Transducer is 20 degrees I decided to start out with the first adapter at 15 degrees. I had some 1-1/2in Sch 40 Aluminum pipe and that OD fits right inside the plastic cup of the transducer. I'm thinking I can screw the transducer to the adapter on the install. The plan is to fabricate my normal Livescope Stick but weld a 15 degree adapter on the bottom. The ID of the Humminbird Transducer is a bit over 1-5/8in. The Adapter OD is a very good fit.



I've built so many T-Tops I automatically pre-cut the Cope Angle into the pipe. Well Coping the opposite end which was still a 90 degree cut turned out to fit the Handrail material better. I use 1-3/8in Aluminum Handrail material for my sticks, the Livescope wire connector fits perfectly inside.



Tomorrow I will square everything up before welding. A wiring path will be needed too for internal wiring. Below is a picture of the Livescope poles I build for my customers.



Of course they get a nice flat black Epoxy paint job and I use Bicycle Handle Bar Grips on the handles. From the test results today I've bought my last Panoptix transducer. Having 2 boats with these transducers and fishing a lot a guy will go broke buying them.

[SuperDave336]

Those poles are nice!

[Ketchn]

Nifty idea , we often hit our rear transducer and it gets tilted some , seen a few depth readings of 200 feet before

[BuckeyeCrappie]

Very cool sir! Got me thinking now…..

[Rojo]

I left it with Positioning the Adapter, made some forward movement today.



When I make these they are intended for Saltwater environments and abuse. So far I have not had a single Livescope Transducer come back. All get the Perspective View Adapters too. Brass grease fittings, Nylon Tenisoning Thumb Screws, and TIG welded pivot retaining rings and Handle Base. The Livescope plug is so big nothing can be protruding within the tube. Now this new 2D Transducer mount can be riveted together, makes it much easier to assemble. I still have to TIG weld the 1in pipe between the Pivot Tube and RAM Ball Mounting Base.



I cut the wiring hole smaller so I didn't have a problem TIG welding the Adapter on.



So the Pivot and the two wear surfaces get the course saw teeth marks sanded out before assembly. With the grease it never stiffens getting hard to pivot. No problem with the rivet protrusion here.



I have a Baileigh Coping Tool, I started out with a Ole Jigger but moving to the Baileigh was the best tool investment for Pipe work I could have made.



When you are coping pipe you cope to the Base material. Here I'm using 1-1/4in Sch 40 Aluminum pipe so I have to cope using a hole saw that matches the OD of that pipe for a perfect fit. More later.

[Rojo]

Worked on the 2D Transducer pole today to get it complete enough for a water test. I will make a video of the results with my GoPro so a condensed version can be posted.



I install a Nylon Thumb Tensioning Screw in all the Transducer Poles I fabricate. It works fantastic but they are just a touch short so I grind a flat spot on the Pivot after drilling a 3/8in hole for the Thumb Screw to go thru. TIG welding the nuts are a bit of a pain due to the Mass differences between the 2 pieces. Once the aluminum nut is welded on I pass a Tap thru the threads using Aluminum Tap Magic so the Thumb Screw turns easily.



I burned up a couple of these Motion Detectors before figuring out the TIG light was too bright for them. Now I place a ball cap over it while welding.



I just use the welding machine ground to hold the Pivot while I weld the Base Stanchion to the Pivot and the Base to the Stanchion. Transfer Punches are the Bomb to perfectly laying out the hole pattern of the RAM Ball Base on the Pivot Mtg Base. I pre-drill everything I can before welding.



After welding is complete I sand the inside of the Pivot with long straight scratches. The scratches help the Aluminum hold the grease I use. This time I didn't add a grease fitting since I have never needed to grease any of the others once assembled.



After cutting the Transducer wire exit hole and de-burring it I mounted the Transducer to the adapter, ran the Transducer wire up the pole and out the hole. First I armored just the Transducer Wire with 3/8in Convoluted Tubing then doubled it with 1/2in Convoluted Tubing at the exit hole.



I will fabricate the handle after the water test. I can use the Exit Hole for aiming for now. I need to come up with a folding handle.