Regulations discussion

[Ketchn]

When we go out after fish here in Texas the folks I go with stay one under the limit of whatever they are after until they are ready to leave . Here and in Alaska the law requires you to not ketch another of the species once you have retained your limit on whatever species .
its the old possession clause and the way I understand it from numerous game law enforcement people once you retain your limit if you ketch and even hold another you are in possession of it regardless of the final destination . the reason I say this is because I know it also not legal to limit out and give fish away after that and or give fish away beyond whatever the limit is either .
So is this the way it works in other states as well or is it ok to ketch a limit and keep after them as long as you don't keep anymore of them ?
keep in mind you feel free to interpret your game laws however you want . and I am not in law enforcement and am not trying to get any honest anglers in any trouble of any kind . I also want to make it clear this is just a conversation and no one needs to get upset and or frisky on the subject .
I was just wondering how the laws are in other states regarding this subject .
and a good education on this topic might help someone to not get a ticket is my thoughts

[wicklundrh]

That is a very tricky topic. I've had this discussion with a couple of buddies of mine (Conservation Officers). Both know the laws and it is kind of up to interpretation.

Technically, "Culling" fish in Michigan is NOT legal. In other words, if your limit is 10, and you have 10 fish in the box, you catch a bigger fish, you cannot swap it out with one in the live well. That said, they cannot stop you from fishing. There are too many other species that you can fish for that do not count towards that 10 fish bag limit (they have their own bag limit). Also, you have the old "catch and release" clause that allows you to catch and "immediately" (according to the MDNR handbook) release your catch.

Here is the tricky part.
Say there are two men in the boat and each person has a 5 fish limit. In Michigan, you are only allowed to fish with no more than 3 rods per person. You are trolling six fishing rods and catch and keep your 9th fish. This would mean that one man is at his limit. Does that mean that you must real in 3 lines? The answer from my buddies was "NO". The reason was because, again, there are too many other species and an officer cannot interpret what the "intended" target will be.

This does however become a touchy subject. Especially dealing with jigging the river system. Again, a 5 fish limit per person, two people in the boat. The 9th fish comes in. Is one person done? If so, who is done? According to the actual law, the fish caught "should" be defined as to "who" caught them. In other words... NOT a community limit. If an officer approaches and asks how many fish on board, and the answer is "9", chances are, they are going to ask who has the five fish limit. Again, open to interpretation as far as catch and release fishing at this point in time (you can still fish) however, one should not catch a fish and give it to the other member of the boat. Community limit however can only really be enforced if someone was watching!

In a perfect world, where laws actually are written to make sense, the simple response that most states could have to combat this issue would be to initiate "combined limit". In other words, if each person can have a possession of 10 fish, and there are two people in the boat, than the entire "boat" limit is 20 fish. It would make these laws a ton simpler. At least in Michigan, you can still fish due to the catch and release clause.

Lets not even get started on the "Daily bag limit" and "total in possession limit"!

[Minners N Jigs]

Different strokes for different folks, but I prefer to not walk or straddle the gray area lines. Often times laws can be poorly written, and different language could and would simplify/offer greater clarity, but as black and white fades to gray I stop while the line is still clear. Much like the sign that reads: "Don't touch, wet paint".... We would better served if the sign read: "Don't touch the dang wall" The first sign suggests: "its okay to touch as long as the paint is dry", but the only way to know is of course, to touch it !

[huntinslabs]

Try and read and understand Floridas saltwater laws. State is divided multiple different ways into different zones based on species of fish. Redfish have different zones than speckled trout and each zone has its own limits and closed times and they do not coincide. Snook divides it again another way into different zones and closures. Tarpon and Goliath grouper can not be removed from water even to remove hook without a permit. Panfish is pretty straight forward with exception to a few bodies of water., largemouth bass have some different laws and and slot limits even by lake. And dont even try and figure out the lottery system for quota hunt permits and drawing dates and redraw dates.

[blue-jig]

That is a very tricky topic. I've had this discussion with a couple of buddies of mine (Conservation Officers). Both know the laws and it is kind of up to interpretation.

Technically, "Culling" fish in Michigan is NOT legal. In other words, if your limit is 10, and you have 10 fish in the box, you catch a bigger fish, you cannot swap it out with one in the live well. That said, they cannot stop you from fishing. There are too many other species that you can fish for that do not count towards that 10 fish bag limit (they have their own bag limit). Also, you have the old "catch and release" clause that allows you to catch and "immediately" (according to the MDNR handbook) release your catch.

Here is the tricky part.
Say there are two men in the boat and each person has a 5 fish limit. In Michigan, you are only allowed to fish with no more than 3 rods per person. You are trolling six fishing rods and catch and keep your 9th fish. This would mean that one man is at his limit. Does that mean that you must real in 3 lines? The answer from my buddies was "NO". The reason was because, again, there are too many other species and an officer cannot interpret what the "intended" target will be.

This does however become a touchy subject. Especially dealing with jigging the river system. Again, a 5 fish limit per person, two people in the boat. The 9th fish comes in. Is one person done? If so, who is done? According to the actual law, the fish caught "should" be defined as to "who" caught them. In other words... NOT a community limit. If an officer approaches and asks how many fish on board, and the answer is "9", chances are, they are going to ask who has the five fish limit. Again, open to interpretation as far as catch and release fishing at this point in time (you can still fish) however, one should not catch a fish and give it to the other member of the boat. Community limit however can only really be enforced if someone was watching!

In a perfect world, where laws actually are written to make sense, the simple response that most states could have to combat this issue would be to initiate "combined limit". In other words, if each person can have a possession of 10 fish, and there are two people in the boat, than the entire "boat" limit is 20 fish. It would make these laws a ton simpler. At least in Michigan, you can still fish due to the catch and release clause.

Lets not even get started on the "Daily bag limit" and "total in possession limit"!

I was reading your post and just thinking the same thing (if you are talking about ducks). That's another situation that I'm sure some guys here could discuss for days. Didn't mean to bring it up again for discussion, I just thought it was interesting that I thought about the same controversial subject. Ha!

[Cmj]

In Arkansas the limit per person is 30 (recently changed from 20.) Once you have that, you are done. Keep 29 and keep on fishing if you want to cull. If two people are in the boat, technically they have to keep track of who caught what, but there's no way to prove it unless the GW watches your entire day of fishing, so it is just treated as though each fisherman caught 30. There is a sticky about this on the Arkansas board.


Here is a link if anyone cares to read. The responses were given by the Captain of enforcement of the AGFC
Crappie Daily and Possession Limits

[wicklundrh]

CMJ:

Good point. I was having the discussion with my buddy (a Conservation Officer) while we were fishing from my boat. I always tell him he has to quit fishing!!!!

[lowe175]

If I catch my limit in a few hours and I still want to fish I just keep on fishing. I maybe wrong but I do it all the time. I would think as long as you don't put it in the live wells you're fine. I'll just tell the game warden I'm bass fishing I can't help it if crappie don't know that lol.

[Special K]

HUMAN NATURE VS SPORTSMANSHIP - THE REAL QUESTION HERE

I wish I could be so optimistic as to say the jury is still out on whether we (as humans) are fundamentally generous or more greedy by nature and whether these tendencies are shaped most by our biology, our upbringing, our environment or by our laws. I realize that most of you are going to be quick to say "ALL OF THE ABOVE." IMHO: I believe that's what this thread topic is really about when you boil it all down... but I must say I strongly disagree that it's about the letter of the law... but I believe it's really it's about human nature.

If we’re being totally honest, most of us have at least some amount of "healthy" selfish aims – to make money, to win a promotion at work, to keep up with the Jones's, to be more successful at fishing or hunting than others, to keep fishing or hunting even though we've taken our limit for the day... and so on and so forth, so let me stipulate that these things aren't so much what I'm about to talk about. I have often said, "If your not living on the edge... you are taking up way too much space." But, in reality I know the majority of us, including me, at least try to pursue these and other goals (while at the same time) conforming to the basic rules of sportsmanship, decency and (of course) the laws and common sense of the land.

But, what should really bother us all is: Regardless of the letter of the law in any state; there is a minority of people out there who just are not going to play by the rules no matter how they are written or enforced. These are the selfish individuals who consider most circumstances (quite simply) as only opportunities to be leveraged or manipulated in the pursuit of their own selfish aims of gain, betterment or showmanship. They typically think nothing of betrayal, backstabbing or short-cutting the rules to those ends; because in their own (world) (belief system)... they fundamentally believe everyone else is in it for themselves so why shouldn't they be in it for themselves too; and as (simply) a matter of survival of the fittest--so in their mind they should be as good or better at the game than others.

My late father had much wisdom in this area (God rest his soul) when he used to say things like: "If you had a deer hunter who had an exclusive lease on 500 acres of land upon which he could hunt as he saw fit without any fear of intrusion or disturbance from anyone else; you'll usually later find that same hunter will choose to build all of his stands and spend all of his time and efforts hunting the boundaries of that land where he feels like he is in best control of his own land; while he is also giving himself the best vantage point to also watch (or hunt) the land of the adjoining landowner surrounding his."

My two cents. Wayne

[lowe175]

Well said special k, I've seen what you're saying a lot but continuing to fish after you have a limit as long as you don't keep them is not hurting anything