Here in the Ozarks, our lakes as a rule are clear 3-20 visibility we usually see the fish at 30-40 ft away, on LS, try to point into wind, stay 20-30 ft back, cast, count our jigs down and retrieve through. If we go over to Oklahoma to Grand Lake or up to Truman we can usually get over them and vertical. Think this is why we have little spider rigging down here, and guys going to longer rods.... bought me a 20' now if I could figure out how to handle it.....