Reply With QuoteWow! Is all of this about keeping minners alive? You guys need some jigs, Bobby Garlands, and some Slab Sauce! Then go fishing! You are getting some posts under your belt though, so on second thought, carry on!
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Slabmaster II
Well, well, glad to see you finally coming to class and learning something new as in post after post I have preached how that the oxygen levels were the main criteria that the lack of leads to fish mortality.Originally Posted by Benton B
Sure when you infuse the water with 100% oxygen of course you can get away with higher temps and more population of fish without higher mortality rates as compared to using straight air from the environment with its lower 02 content any one with any intelligence at all would realize that.
As you say "Old timers and Grandpa call this – “Rocket Science.", I guess this is also part of your 2018 "new science" as well although I can remember even back when I was a kid a half a century ago that you could buy a goldfish from Woolworths and they would put the fish, the water and a shot of oxygen in the bag 50 years ago so this sure is new fangled technology that apparently you have just become aware of.
But again you are still using commercial methods and techniques trying to overcome the average fishermans problem of keeping his minnows alive on the boat deck while fishing with them.
Your oxygen in the bag works great as long as that bag is sealed and unopened, but the second you open that bag to thread that first minnow on the hook early in the morning all that fantastic cannot be beat oxygen is gone and those minnows will now be subjected to the same issues that those that arrived in the engal cooler face.
You cannot seem to grasp the fact that the issues facing the guy on the boat deck is completely different than those using commercial transport methods.
Also you cannot seem to grasp that the average weekend crappie fisherman does not want to fool with infusing close to pure oxygen in their minner bucket.
Actually I have COPD and I actually have a machine here at home that I can fill small medical grade 02 bottles for no more than the cost of juice to power the machine. I could easily rig either an adapter hose to use the marine regulator with the medical bottles or I am sure I could easily make a restrictive orifice small enough to just use one of the half dozen regulators I already have. I have the hose as well so for an out of pocket cost of probably 0 I could set up an oxygen injection system for my bait well but I do not feel the need to go to that extreme.
Another thing you mention is the VT2 vent system, again maybe someone that is using their built in boat live well to keep there minners but most you will find are using a cooler or bait bucket.
But here again you have added nothing new information wise to the conversation, I mentioned cracking the lid to vent and improve water quality a few post ago but you are good at taking what I have previously already brought up and acting like it is something new that you are bringing into the conversation. Did you get your answers for your test in school off of your classmates paper after they had already answered the question?
Most people do not want to get up out of their seat and go back to the live well every time they need a new minner!
Why in the world would I want to spend $45 to puts vents in my Engal bait cooler when I can just crack the lid open a bit for free and accomplish the exact same thing?
Again what you say us old folks consider rocket science was known 50 years ago even when ya bought a pet goldfish.
But at least you are starting to pay attention and understand that oxygen levels is the most important aspect. Now if you could just open up that mind a bit more to understand that water temps affect the amount of o2 using regular air and also understand the difference in transporting commercial or infusing water with 100% oxygen are not the same as the guy sitting in the sun on his boat deck using minnows for bait then there may be help for you yet.
Grandpa had a saying about those like you. "That boy sure ain't the brightest bulb on the string is he?"
Last edited by vfourmax; 05-21-2018 at 01:46 PM.
Crappie.com Legend
Wow! Is all of this about keeping minners alive? You guys need some jigs, Bobby Garlands, and some Slab Sauce! Then go fishing! You are getting some posts under your belt though, so on second thought, carry on!
I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.Pithon LIKED above post
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OK, GUYS .... let's agree to disagree, and do it with humility. Some are starting to get their toes over the line of site rules prohibiting negative personal attacks or negative connotations towards other members.
Any continuation of such behavior will be subject to editing, deleting, or the closing of this thread.
YOU HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY WARNED.
Crappie.com Legend
Get rid of the minnows and go with jigs and Slab Sauce or Crappie nibbles. They truly work.
Crappie Wall Hanger II
On a positive note: I have learned more off of this one thread about oxygen levels and water Temps than I ever did in school. Lol. Never thought I was gonna learn science off of a crappie page.
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Slabmaster II
That is actually great to hear as that is the exact reason I have been so active in this conversation. Trying to help the average crappie fisherman who is trying while sitting on his boat deck in the heat of summer to keep his minners in the best shape as possible while not feeling the need to spend exorbitant amounts of cash to see improvements in his baits mortality rates.
Actually things such as my showing the different O2 absorbent levels at different water temps was to help the average fisherman being able to to see the reason and understand why that cooling too warm bait well water down a few degrees can be so beneficial.
Using a basically free frozen ice bottle and understanding that such action actually improves the waters ability to absorb and hold higher environmental O2 levels is the reason that cooling the water is beneficial makes for a fisherman that is more knowledgeable in trying to care for his bait in not so optimum conditions and that option basically comes at absolutely no cost to the fisherman..
Knowing that using an insulated cooler over an uninsulated bucket can help in trying to control temperature variations as well.
Knowing when choosing a cooler to use for keeping bait that the more water surface area exposed to the air helps the degassing of harmful gasses from the bait well water again improving water quality that goes far in promoting bait fish health. Also knowing that cracking the cooler lid open a bit helps the release of harmful gases as well.
Knowing that smaller air bubbles are much more efficient to transferring O2 can make upgrading to a little better air stone at your local home aquarium shop a cheap upgrade that again can help keeping a persons minners healthy.
For me this thread has been about trying explain some of the why's and to show and to come up with inexpensive fixes that actually help the average crappie fisherman have somewhat better success with minner health in hotter temps without spending any if much money at all.
Sure there are high dollar systems that may offer better results and there is equipment and methods employed and used by commercial fish transporters that work well also but in my opinion the average weekend crappie fisherman is not looking for complex multi dollar solutions to fix a problem that in many cases a frozen bottle of ice along with cracking the insulated cooler lid an inch or so that he has added an inexpensive aerator will provide satisfactory results for the days fishing trip.
Basic knowledge in understanding how and why can go a long ways helping sort out reasonable acceptable solutions many which are free or very low cost improvements is what I think most average crappie fisherman are in search of.
Yes tournament fisherman that earn their living cashing checks from fishing may be looking at more complex and expensive solutions that at times only offer marginal better results than the poor boys version but when your livelyhood depends on it then you go to the extremes.
Again commercial shippers and transporters employ different methods using different equipment and techniques that in most cases are not practical for the weekend fisherman to employ on his boat deck in the middle of the lake.
Nope hopefully a few ideas here will help the average guy the next trip out in hot weather when he is using minners for bait.
As a side note I use artificial bait on more trips than I use minnows but I do like fishing with both.
RogerA thanked you for this post
Keeper
KILLING MINNOWS [DURING LIVE TRANSPORT IN THE SUMMER – bait tank/livewell water quality]
Of course this entire thread is totally meaningless, a silly waste of time and band space for all “plastic-baiters.” I may be wrong, but I don’t think this thread was intended in any way for “plastic-baiters” at all. No disrespect for any the plastic-baiters that tuned in, but plastic-baits are definitely a great option when live minnows/shad are simply way too much trouble to deal with in a bait tank.
Choices, options, more choices and more options, oh my, there are so many choices and options available today to all live bait fishermen that are not happy nor satisfied with their summer minnow/shad live bait quality or mortality every summer and want their bait to live longer and be healthier in the bait tank during transports or simply keeping these bait fish alive and healthy over night or a few days at home.
In this thread, in the last few days, we have look at/talked about several options currently available and used that live bait fishermen have to choose from regarding methods and techniques of live fish transport/bait tank water quality available today. Different ways pro and armature fishermen, minnow dealers and fish hatchery staff insure and manage “safe” bait tank/haul tank water quality during summer live transports when mortality and morbidity is historically highest during the year. There are excellent livewell supplements (salt) that aid fish reducing the work of osmoregulation and improving electrolyte imbalances for captive fresh water live bait managing the high stress of unnatural captivity and the extreme riggers of live transport in the summer.
All bait tanks, livewells, ice chest and 5 gallon bait buckets have 1 vital thing in common… water quality. Some produce poor water quality, others are a little better and then there’s other water quality methods, new oxygenating technologies designed specifically for the sport fisherman’s livewells, bait tanks and bait buckets that far exceed the older, archaic mechanical aeration technologies. Some of the newer oxygenating technologies available today allow fishermen to far exceed the standard aeration stocking densities of 1 lb. live fish per 1 gallon water and be sure to use ice in the summer to induce hypothermia.
Consider this, with some of the new oxygenating technologies fishermen can safely stock their livewells/bait tanks with 3-4 lbs. of live minnows per 1 gallon water during live transport.
Dig this: Any live bait fishermen can also “supercharge” minnows or shad in their bait tank if you really like and want to make an abnormal live bait fish that is totally unnatural, far stronger, more active and much more energetic than any fresh caught bait fish.
Here is how that works again (previously posted): “Supercharge Your Live Baits” by George Poveromo Supercharge Your Live Baits All this is not possible without that magic gas – oxygen (O2) not to be confused with ambient air. Mother Nature cannot "supercharge live baits in any bait tank/livewell even with a giant aerator pumping 10,000 cu. ft. air/minute bubbling into any livewell or even a lake, but any live bait fisherman can do this bubbling that magic gas (O2) into the livewell if he/she wants too…. Just more options, more choices for all/any live baiters.
How much oxygen bubbling into the livewell water does it take to “Supercharge” live baits? Poveromo really doesn’t say in this article (secret stuff maybe), but one thing for sure, more live baits in any livewell/ bait tank do require more oxygen (O2) and although ambient air does contain 20% O2 or is only 1/5 O2 in the mixture of different gases. Air is not O2 by any stretch of the imagination… many fishermen, aerator salesmen, bait tanks salesmen and fishing article writers often confuse air with oxygen, a common error and myth whether written or spoken intentionally or unintentionally.
All bait tanks/livewells have more summer water quality and overstocking problems than during all the cool months, fall, winter and spring and of course the # 1 problem and bait killer for live bait transport in the summer is insufficient dissolved oxygen, chronic low oxygen problems usually caused by overstocking and resulting in sick, lethargic sloppy bait, red-nose and dead bait.
If you are one of the many live minnow/shad fishermen that do have problems keeping minnows/shad alive or healthy all day in any bait tank in the summer you really do have many other great options available to choose from that will improve your bait quality and bait survival every summer.
In this thread we have looked at, identified and cussed and discussed different ways of managing summer bait tank/livewell water quality that work OK, other ways that work a little better and currently the best ways used by the expert fish transport that transport live fish every day for federal, state and private fish hatcheries throughout the USA and the world. There are many options to choose from if you know of these options and understand the many options available to you. This is America and you have choices.
I am certainly not recommend any bait tank, livewell or water quality method to use because all that is always your personal choice, it’s not mine.
Personally, I like the fake-baits and spray on chemicals in the fall, winter, spring and early summer, but when the full force of summer arrives (which is always predictable), when the bite really slows down and stops near and during the Dog Days of Summer, I do use live bait because those fish just don’t. won't chase nor bite my fake-baits then… the serious live minnow/shad fishermen know about and expect this, this time of the summer. I like several different brands and types of fake baits and a couple different I also like a few different chemical teases I have found productive and use at different times of the year. I am basically a meat hunter type fisherman.
I love to catch and eat those fresh Sacalait, they are my favorite. I will even keep them alive in my livewell till I’m ready to kill’em, fillet’em and fry’em-up… now that’s what I call “country fresh” fish that will never smell nor taste fishy at all. I just won't eat fish that smell or taste fishy.
The point being, if your minnows/shad are sickly (red-nose, lethargic) or dying in your bait tank in the summer, regardless of the bait tank brand or cost, and you are looking are not 100% happy with your summer minnow/shad quality and feel your minnow summer mortality and morbidity is not satisfactory… you really do have better options that will and do reduce your summer minnow/shad mortality and morbidity. There are definitely far better ways to dramatically improve you summer bait tank water quality problems, if you believe you have any problems, with any brand of bait tank, ice chest or 5 gallon bait bucket.
But, if you are perfectly satisfied with you minnow/shad mortality and quality in the summer, do not change or consider changing anything. Keep doing exactly what you’re doing.
If you are not 100% pleased with your summer bait quality or bait tank kill, you really do have many better options that will definitely improve your bait’s life and quality and this is always 100% your personal choice.
Interesting thread for live baiters for sure. I enjoy interesting threads, the discussion, banter, jokes, comments, opinion and ideas presented by all that participated; what works, what kinda-works, what doesn’t/won’t work what Jack has tried and what Billy has tried to keep minnows/shad healthy and alive in the summer.
I also like and appreciate the way the board monitor pays close attention to the thread, how the discussion develops and is not shy about discretely redirecting the discussion back to the point of the thread topic. Great job.
I am sorry to hear that one of the forum members has advanced COPD that has gotten to the point that requires supplemental oxygen at home. I will put you on our bible class prayer role and we shall prey for you and your family in these difficult times.
