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Thread: Guide numbers and so on.

  1. #1
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    Default Guide numbers and so on.


    In another post here, y’all talk of guide size and placement. Last trip out I had a revelation of sorts about this subject and came up with a few questions that I couldn’t figure out on my own. I have two favorite rods, both with a President 6920 and 2lb Nanofil line and a short 4lb mono leader.
    Rod one is a Wally Marshall signature series black tuxedo , a 6’ one piece rod with 8 guides, the stripper is about nickel size. Like the action albeit a little stiffer than what I was looking for when I bought it.
    Rod two is a Berkeley lightning rod in 5’6” and it’s a 2 piece rod with 4 guides and a very nice action that I have come to love. Wasn’t all on board about it being two pieces when I bought it but those thoughts have long since fallen away.
    Same everything on the rod, reel, line and jig so all things equal. The Lightning Rod will outcast the Wally Marshall rod by a noticeable difference. This usually results in the Wally getting put down and the Lightning spending more time in my hand.
    My question is; with most variables equal, what could be causing the cast to be so different and how do I go about fixing it. I’m not against buying new guides and redoing the rod if it will perform when done. I’m also not against selling the Wally and getting another Lightning. Most of my presentation lately is shooting under trees and brush, a line drive cast, if you will. Just looking for input and thanks for taking the time to read this......Tim.
    Creativity is just intelligence fooling around

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    I'm not to sure Skeet, but could be line slap on the rod as the line coils off the reel before the first guide slowing it down. I will be honest, I haven't held either rod...
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    I measured the stripper guide on both and the one that casts well, the lightning rod, measures 3/4” while the other has more runner guides and the stripper is 1/2”. The rod is medium light and very light in the hand but just doesn’t cast very well. Thanks for the input.
    Creativity is just intelligence fooling around

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    Skeet, I will say I'm no expert, just commenting from my experience and what I pick up here and there...best of luck, hope you get it worked out...
    Proud to have served with and supported the Units I was in: 1st IDF, 9th INF, 558th USAAG (Greece), 7th Transportation Brigade, 6th MEDSOM (Korea), III Corp, 8th IDF, 3rd Armor Div.
    1980 Ebbtide Dyna-Trak 160 Evinrude 65 Triumph

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    Casting distance comes from the rod properly loading up the bait. If the bait is to light the rod will not load up or if the bait is to heavy the rod will over load and whip around on the forward cast, both will cause a decrease in casting distance. The number of guides really doesn't have anything to do with it, the more guides just mean more points of contact on the blank for sensitivity. I use 9 or 10 plus a tip on rods 6 to 7 foot but the style of guides can make a huge difference. That is my best guess If the reel line and jig are the same.

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    Makes sense Brent. I have that rod in both 5’6” and 6’, and the small stripper guides puzzled me when I bought it. I have to try it with regular sized 1/32 and see if it’s any better. Going with Wicklunders recommendations about height of the guides, these don’t make anything close to a reasonably straight line from the reel to the tip, pretty sharp angle from the reel to the stripper. Guess the easiest way to get it to behave is to buy another like the one that works sweet. Good thing they aren’t too expensive. Thanks for the input folks.
    Creativity is just intelligence fooling around

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    Skeet, on the rod that doesn't cast well, how far is the stripper guide from the reel compared to the other rod? Also, how high off the rod does the first guide stand compared to the other one? I'm thinking line deflection or angle if you get what I'm saying? Grasping at differences without seeing the two rods.
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    I would check the spline to guide alignment. Hard to believe a manufacturer would place the guides misaligned to the spline but things happen.
    Easy enough to check though. Remove reel and line. Place the handle on the floor hold the tip and apply slight pressure to center of rod. The guides should follow the natural bend of the rod. Course they are on opposite sides for spinning vs casting but that's an easy test.
    Mudhole tackle has a video on their website walking you through this and proper guide placement.
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    I’m sure someone has figured out the placement on the new style of super low frame stripper guides but if it’s off they ldon’t cast well because of what wick was saying about the sharp angle off the reel to the runners. I tried to build a rod with them after seeing a production rod that has them on it. I even called to guide manufacturer to work out a guide placement. That rod didn’t cast well and the guides caused so many wind knots I strait up trashed the rod. Take the same blank with any other guide and it works beautifully.

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    I had the exact same issue as GB did.

    I will say this, picking the guys brains that build a lot of rods is by far the best way to go. If I was a hobby builder that built one here or there, I could see where you would have some frustration after building a rod and then having it not perform as you want or think it should. Like GB, I have built a few rods with different platforms on it and it is amazing to see how some things can completely transform a turd into a treasure or vice versa.

    A big frustration that even I deal with is the complete difference between rod manufacturers and even materal makup in relation to the advertised rod action. One companys UL Fast rod will have an action comparable to another companies Light weight moderate action rod. I guess that is why so many of us find a particular brand or company that we get used to and we stick with it because we can accurate predict what the rod blank will react like or feel. You have to have that sort of knowledge when building rods for people.

    I build (or used to build) a ton of jigging rods. Very specific rods intended to jig 5/8oz to more than 1oz jigs in fast current for walleyes. Knowing what the person intends to get out of the rod or what they are looking for was a great beneifit. I could accurately gauge which rod blank (even down to the company) would work best for them. If they were NEVER going to cast this rod, I would build it a ton different than if they were. Same held true for what type of line they wanted to utilize. Again, many guys assume that they need to use X because that is what they found works best on the current version of rod they have. Then they are amazed when you build them a custom intent rod.

    I own tons of rods, some of them are store purchased and some are custom built. The store purchased ones that I contue to use, I simply have yet to find a blank that reacts like that one. Not to say it isn't made, just that I have yet to find it!

    I'm currently working on a real gem right now. A rod blank composit that has not been made in years. I was able to get the company to reproduce it in order to closely match the makeup of one of their rods from more than 30 years ago. It got sent back in 2016 on a warranty mission only to find that they just couldn't make it anymore. Instead of warrantying that rod, they decided to produce a whole new blank for me. Slightly better than the original but still utilizing the same components. I'll show it off when it is complete. If you are not familiar with a SAGE rod, take a look. Feel free to choke when looking at the prices. Then you will realize the reason I called it a real GEM!
    I have OCD "Obsessive Crappie Disorder"

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