Crappie Question

Hi, everyone. Here's a question I posted on a Missouri conservation board, but I haven't received any answers yet. CP and all the other crappie experts here - I'd appreciate your opinions about this situation. Thanks! - Sam
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There's something I can't figure out.

Bull Shoals is still high, about 8' above the 653' I think is ideal. That's better than the 22' high level it reached a couple of months ago.

Here's the thing. The last three crappie trips I've had there, I can find only BLACK crappie. They're in brush piles in about 20 feet of water, and they're all legal keepers - but there aren't many of them.

Normally, in past years on Bull Shoals, I catch about 10 white crappie for every black. When I was there last week, I fished hard every way I knew and caught 4 black crappie, total, for the day. That's about normal, but WHERE are the 40 white crappie I should have caught with them?

The blacks are nice as they tend to run bigger - often more than half of the white crappie I catch there are under 10", and that doesn't happen with the black crappie.

But, I sure don't know where all those white crappie went. They don't seem to be deep, or on the trees, or on points, bluffs, channels, cove entrances, or structure. I know there are a LOT of white crappie in this area of the lake, but I can't find a one.

The only thing I can figure is that they're up in shallow water - hiding in the flooded land bushes where I can't reach them. It's hard to believe they'd be that shallow with the surface water temp at 84, but maybe the shade of the land bushes keeps them on the banks, buried in the brush. And maybe if the water level drops to normal I'll be able to find them again. What do you think?

I fish several different bodies of water in Northeast Alabama, and 15 years ago when I was a young teenager, we had lots of white crappie. Over the last 10 years, I catch 100 or more black crappie for every 1 white crappie I catch. I dont know if the waters changed in some way over time that made it harder for one species to adapt or what, I aint figured it out either. It's odd to me though that your black crappie are bigger, I thought it was generally the other way around, it could be the hatch year. When I ever do catch a white crappie, it is usually a good one, or as some say "goodun" I'd also like to hear what others have to say on this subject, lets here it CP.

SamW.......I've read several articles in a Crappie Fishing magazine about high water that state that they may go shallow in those conditions. But, where fishing is concerned, nothing is 100%. I have tried it before and found them shallow, but none of a good keeper size....usually from 6"to 8". Logic would indicate there should be larger crappie, but I have not been able to find them under a high water condition in the shallows. The small ones were plentiful on long and deep main lake points that had cover close to the shoreline. Buck brush and fallen trees were choice if you like tater chips. The ones that I did catch were exclusively whites, maybe because they are more tolerant of muddy, stained and warm waters, which is common under high water conditions. Maybe CP will share his thoughts on this thread, I would like to hear his opinion. How about it, CP?

Sam:
The very same thing is happening at Kentucy Lake. They started sampling more black crappie than white crappie so the Kentucy DNR decided to try to figure out what was going on. They tagged a bunch of black and white crappie with radios and let them loose and tracked them. Maybe the Kentucy Study about why there are more black crappie being caught than White crappie will shed some light on this matter.

You might want to get in touch with the Fishery Biologist at the Kentucy DNR.

I know that they were posting the interum reports on the old www.crappie.com web site on Richard Williams Forum. You might get their email addys from Richards forum and then email them to ask them some questions to see what they found out. I last saw a report in June on Richards web site. That was before all the viagra ads started appearing on Richards and the other forums.

I do know that in Both Blood River and in Shledd Bay on Kentucy lake the Black Crappie were generally found in shallower water first and more often than the white crappie. Seems that the white crappie that were radio tagged hung out in deeper water near the mouth of the bay and even traveled out of the bay at times to the old river channel. The black crappie seemed to stay in the bay longer and went further into the back of the bay in the shallower water earlier in the year. That is my summary from what I have read about both studies.

I am waiting for the final reports with all the supporting data to be posted on the web where we all can learn from it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam W.

Hi, everyone. Here's a question I posted on a Missouri conservation board, but I haven't received any answers yet. CP and all the other crappie experts here - I'd appreciate your opinions about this situation. Thanks! - Sam
--------------------------------------
There's something I can't figure out.

Bull Shoals is still high, about 8' above the 653' I think is ideal. That's better than the 22' high level it reached a couple of months ago.

Here's the thing. The last three crappie trips I've had there, I can find only BLACK crappie. They're in brush piles in about 20 feet of water, and they're all legal keepers - but there aren't many of them.

Normally, in past years on Bull Shoals, I catch about 10 white crappie for every black. When I was there last week, I fished hard every way I knew and caught 4 black crappie, total, for the day. That's about normal, but WHERE are the 40 white crappie I should have caught with them?

The blacks are nice as they tend to run bigger - often more than half of the white crappie I catch there are under 10", and that doesn't happen with the black crappie.

But, I sure don't know where all those white crappie went. They don't seem to be deep, or on the trees, or on points, bluffs, channels, cove entrances, or structure. I know there are a LOT of white crappie in this area of the lake, but I can't find a one.

The only thing I can figure is that they're up in shallow water - hiding in the flooded land bushes where I can't reach them. It's hard to believe they'd be that shallow with the surface water temp at 84, but maybe the shade of the land bushes keeps them on the banks, buried in the brush. And maybe if the water level drops to normal I'll be able to find them again. What do you think?

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The 1st place I would head, is to the secondary drop offs that they were normally located at before the high water. Try Fishing at their normal holding depth 1st. If no go there, then add whatever amount the lake has come up to the depth you are fishing at. They should still be in those areas, whether they are suspended higher or lower will be your greatest challenge to solve. They are there, even if you aren't marking them on your locator. That and try suspended over major creek & river channel intersections, and the mouths' of feeder streams too. Hope that helps!
Full baskets to ya!
<,"}/>{ Rippa

Here is the address to the study on Kentucky Lake that Moose1am was refering to. It is pretty interesting, and does shed a little light into the mystry that is Crappie. :D
<,"}/>{ Rippa

http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/crappieresultsspring04.asp

They are an elusive breed of fish - aren't they !! General consensus would have the White Crappie being in the shallow water ... and the Black Crappie being in the deeper, cooler water. I don't find that to be a 100% accurate assumption...and that makes finding them a tad bit more difficult. It would be so much more simple, if the Crappies would play the game fair !! :p
At this time of year - and with water temps being in the 80's ... I'd expect the White Crappie to be close to the schools of baitfish - wherever they may roam. That could be up in the flooded terrain (with rising water) or out in the middle of the lake (with falling water). But with water temps that warm - you can bet they are actively feeding on a regular basis.
White Crappie are notorius for being quite deep during Summer ... and just as notorius for being in relatively shallow water during the wee hours of the morning (and not necessarily around the bank!). Being a predator of mostly other fish (baitfish species) - White Crappie are usually not far from baitfish schools - even if they have to suspend in open water. But they will still usually relate to some form of structure - humps, brush piles, creek channel bends/edges, river channels, bridge pilons & docks in deep water, etc.
Another consideration - thermocline depth ... if your lake stratifies during the Summer - find the thermocline level ... it could be 15ft deep, 30ft deep or even deeper (depending on the average depth of the lake, and water clarity, and rate of displacement - for those lakes with power generation dams). Once you find the thermocline level ... then find structures that extend from below that depth, up thru it, and still don't break the surface (less likely to be a "community" hotspot). Any such spot that is close to a cliff, or area of water that doesn't receive sunlight "all day", is potentially better. Fish these spots from mid-thermocline depth to about 3ft above the thermocline top. Fish with live minnows, &/or Shad/baitfish species, and fish them slow (deadline) and use as many poles as you can handle (and is legal). The use of "added" garnishes can also help - like: Crappie Nibbles, Mega-strike, Berkley Power tubes/live bait, pieces of live worm or larvae along with the "minnow", etc.
I'd also expect them to be holding tight to the cover (even in deep water) during the main portion of the day ... and only suspend above or away from the cover during the early and late hours of the day.
They might have gone into the flooded terrain as the water was rising (at least those that were already shallow) ... but, suspect that with the falling water levels, those fish have retreated back away from the banks.

I'm not so surprised at the "elusive" nature of the White Crappie, as I am of the relative shallowness of the Black Crappie !! :eek: I was always under the assumption that Black Crappie liked clear water, cool water, deeper water, and weeds ... but after my last trip to my home Crappie waters - that assumption didn't hold up. My water temps are in the 80's too, and I caught Black Crappie less than 10ft deep :confused: !! And that was on a "blue bird sky" day, from 8AM-12AM ... trolling a crankbait trailing a jig - for White Bass. And they came off a hump with brush/standing timber, out in the middle of the lake ... even with heavy boat traffic ! The water around the hump ranges from 20-35ft - the hump comes up to between 11-14ft deep, and the timber comes up to within 4-6ft of the surface. Had I been targeting White Crappie (or Crappie in general) I would have been fishing about 20-25ft deep over 30-50ft of water - in standing hardwood timber ... and using live bait (or possibly "vertical casting" with small marabou jigs or jig/minnow combos). That's the "normal" daytime pattern, this time of year, at my home lake. Finding that "one" tree or area that they're schooled up on is the hardest part - after that, just getting the bait in front of them is usually all it takes to get bit. .............luck2ya ........cp :cool:

I've found that when the water temps are that high, the crappies will look for cooler water. With the lake up that high and the trees flooded as you say they are, the crappies will be using the trees for shade. I'd fish the eastern area of trees in the morning, as the sun wont penetrate the water as early as the rest of the area. That will keep the water a little cooler for a while. The baitfish will be using these areas to keep cool too, and those crappies will be feeding on em. Start as far in as you can get and work your way deeper. Look for baitfish activity on or just below the surface and you've found a good spot. I fish Fin-s-shad baits with a crappie nibble suspended below a small float and adjust depth as needed. Small tube jigs on 1/32 or 1/16 oz heads also work well for me. Hope this helps put some of them slabs in the cooler.

The location and depth of the weedline and the amount of Disolved Oxygen in the water can be a key factor also. In times of high muddy water the weeds are burried under more water and water than is more turbid at times. The turbid water and now deeper weeds are not receving as much sunlight as before the high water occured. Therefore these deeper weeds may not photosythensis as much oxygen into the water during the day as before.

If the disolved oxygen is very low below a lakes Thermocline then the fish may not be found in the low oxygen water below that thermocline.

Not all lakes form strong thermoclines. Some lakes have water flowing though the lake that disrupts the formation of thermoclines. Other lakes are exposed to high winds which can set up strong currents in the lake that also disrupt the thermocline.

Dog days of summer are caught by lack of winds and high temps. There conditions are condusive to setting up strong thermoclines.

The only reason I took Limnology was to help my fishing LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crappiepappy

They are an elusive breed of fish - aren't they !! General consensus would have the White Crappie being in the shallow water ... and the Black Crappie being in the deeper, cooler water. I don't find that to be a 100% accurate assumption...and that makes finding them a tad bit more difficult. It would be so much more simple, if the Crappies would play the game fair !! :p
At this time of year - and with water temps being in the 80's ... I'd expect the White Crappie to be close to the schools of baitfish - wherever they may roam. That could be up in the flooded terrain (with rising water) or out in the middle of the lake (with falling water). But with water temps that warm - you can bet they are actively feeding on a regular basis.
White Crappie are notorius for being quite deep during Summer ... and just as notorius for being in relatively shallow water during the wee hours of the morning (and not necessarily around the bank!). Being a predator of mostly other fish (baitfish species) - White Crappie are usually not far from baitfish schools - even if they have to suspend in open water. But they will still usually relate to some form of structure - humps, brush piles, creek channel bends/edges, river channels, bridge pilons & docks in deep water, etc.
Another consideration - thermocline depth ... if your lake stratifies during the Summer - find the thermocline level ... it could be 15ft deep, 30ft deep or even deeper (depending on the average depth of the lake, and water clarity, and rate of displacement - for those lakes with power generation dams). Once you find the thermocline level ... then find structures that extend from below that depth, up thru it, and still don't break the surface (less likely to be a "community" hotspot). Any such spot that is close to a cliff, or area of water that doesn't receive sunlight "all day", is potentially better. Fish these spots from mid-thermocline depth to about 3ft above the thermocline top. Fish with live minnows, &/or Shad/baitfish species, and fish them slow (deadline) and use as many poles as you can handle (and is legal). The use of "added" garnishes can also help - like: Crappie Nibbles, Mega-strike, Berkley Power tubes/live bait, pieces of live worm or larvae along with the "minnow", etc.
I'd also expect them to be holding tight to the cover (even in deep water) during the main portion of the day ... and only suspend above or away from the cover during the early and late hours of the day.
They might have gone into the flooded terrain as the water was rising (at least those that were already shallow) ... but, suspect that with the falling water levels, those fish have retreated back away from the banks.

I'm not so surprised at the "elusive" nature of the White Crappie, as I am of the relative shallowness of the Black Crappie !! :eek: I was always under the assumption that Black Crappie liked clear water, cool water, deeper water, and weeds ... but after my last trip to my home Crappie waters - that assumption didn't hold up. My water temps are in the 80's too, and I caught Black Crappie less than 10ft deep :confused: !! And that was on a "blue bird sky" day, from 8AM-12AM ... trolling a crankbait trailing a jig - for White Bass. And they came off a hump with brush/standing timber, out in the middle of the lake ... even with heavy boat traffic ! The water around the hump ranges from 20-35ft - the hump comes up to between 11-14ft deep, and the timber comes up to within 4-6ft of the surface. Had I been targeting White Crappie (or Crappie in general) I would have been fishing about 20-25ft deep over 30-50ft of water - in standing hardwood timber ... and using live bait (or possibly "vertical casting" with small marabou jigs or jig/minnow combos). That's the "normal" daytime pattern, this time of year, at my home lake. Finding that "one" tree or area that they're schooled up on is the hardest part - after that, just getting the bait in front of them is usually all it takes to get bit. .............luck2ya ........cp :cool:

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