Reply With QuoteSad state of affairs, if that is what is happening. It wouldn't surprise me.
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Slabmaster
Whats up with the Navigation Channel ???
I thought that the COE upgraded the Afton Landing camp ground just a couple of years ago with new waterborne restrooms and showers, electric system and road repairs. I was by there several months ago and noticed that the waterborne restrooms and showers were gone and the park looked pretty run down. I also noticed that there were a lot of trailers there and most campsites were full but only a few people were around. It seemed a little odd at the time but I didn't think any more about it.
I was back that way last week and it appears that people are squatting there on a permanent basis. Lots of household stuff and junk scattered around and stacked on the pads. Almost all the pads were occupied but there were only two with boats. Most sites occupied with trailers but only saw a couple of people in the park. Lots of sites with a trailer but no vehicle, like a residential neighborhood during the day when most are gone to work.
Last time I was at Bluff Landing off of 71st street it looked like people had established semi-permanent living there on several sites.
Last year I drove through Cowlinton Point camp ground on Kerr and it looked more like a cheap trailer park than a campground.
I also heard that Webbers Falls has issues with people occupying sites for months on end. I read a post on the COE web site that said they would love to camp on the Nav Channel but they could never get a good site because of all the people living there on a permanent basis.
The COE has placed all the campgrounds on the Nav Channel on the honor system and I wonder if anyone even checks to see if these people pay their fees or stay longer than 14 days.
Sorry for the rant. Maybe I am wrong but I wondered If anyone else had noticed anything that looked odd.
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Sad state of affairs, if that is what is happening. It wouldn't surprise me.
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Keeper
I thought they have camp host that run it?
Slabmaster
I just got an answer back from the COE this morning. The waterborne restrooms and showers at Afton Landing were torn down due to poor condition and the COE has requested funds to rebuild them but it has not been approved yet.
The 14 day rule is waived from October to April for all COE campgrounds on the Navigation Channel and Lake Fort Gibson campsites that remain open all winter. That means you can just move in and live there for 7 months of the year. The COE said that most of the people living at Bluff and Afton work in Tulsa. With winter rates in effect that means they get a camp site, electric, water, showers, for half the year at half price. Where else can you live with all utilities and rent for $8 or $9 dollars a day. Then the rest of the year they can stay for 14 days and get another 14 day extension and only have to move once a month.
These Squatters take over all the good campsites for most of the year. The weekend and recreational camper gets screwed. Not so much a problem for parks on the National Reservation System with gate shacks and attendants but these parks are all first come, first served and most don't have gates or attendants for most if not all of the year. The next time you drive over to one of these parks to camp and all the decent sites are occupied it is probably by a squatter and not a fellow recreational camper.
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I understand where your coming from on this, I'd hate to try to go to one of these campgrounds and continually find it filled up. Although I'm not quite clear though from your response that you got from the COE; if the COE is collecting the daily use rate and the COE has implemented these rules then I could hardly find fault with the campers that are staying there, even if it is for seven months straight as long as they are complying with the rules. If the COE is not collecting the fees then the COE should be held accountable. If the COE is trying to collect from the campers and they are not paying "Squatters" then it only takes one phone call to get them arrested or removed, so still goes back to the COE to resolve this.Originally Posted by bigjon
Slabmaster
The COE said that they are collecting the fees so I guess that is not an issue. I still don't like the policy that allows people to use a public resource as cheap public housing. I camp a lot in late fall and early spring and the campsites are not on the reservation system so there is no way to tell what sites are available until I get there. I just hate to pull in only to find that all the good sites are occupied by permanent residents. Plus they are getting rent, and utilities for practically nothing. If one of them also happens to be over 65 and have a senior pass they only pay half of the off season rate which could be as little as $5.00 a day for campsite, water and electric. Put the site in Grandpa's name and then move in the whole family and get rent and utilities for $150 a month.
Crappie.com 3K Star General
Yes I agree with you on that, at the very least they should still enforce the 14 day rule and keep the online reservation system going after all I don't see where is any additional expenses with the reservation system whether they are using it or not being as it's just basically a computer setting somewhere.
Slabmaster
All of the COE campgrounds on the Navigation Channel including all of Webbers Falls and Kerr have been permanently removed from the reservation system and are all walk-in first come, first serve. If you want to camp at Bluff Lading or Afton Landing on the channel, Brewer Bend or Spaniard Creek on Webbers Falls, Cowlington Point, Short Mountain or Applegate Cove on Kerr Lake or Wildwood on Fort Gibson you can't check and see what sites are available. Too often I have arrived only to find all decent sites are occupied. Allowing people to "homestead" on sites for half a year or more makes it even more difficult.
I KNOW MY RANTING WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING BUT THIS HAS BEEN A PROBLEM FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND I WANTED TO GET IT OFF MY CHEST. THANKS FOR LISTENING.
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If it averages $17 a day for space and electric, it still comes to $510 a month which makes the COE money. It's like renting a place to park a vehicle and supplying a water hookup and an extension cord. Not a bad income. As for not having the chance for a choice spot, they would most likely not be available anyway when you're ready to go camping. Makes one understand investing in a lake property.
Reaper, Where Fish come to Fry
Slabmaster
As a for instance: I go to a campground the first of September and get a campsite for 14 days and then a 14 day extension. Now it's October 1st and I can stay at the same site until April 1st. I only pay the winter rate for Oct thru Mar which is a reduced rate. Then on April 1st when the regular season starts I just pay for 14 days at regular price and another 14 day extension. Now I have lived at the same site for 8 months and paid a reduced rate for 6 of those months. That means that that campsite has only been available to the public for 4 months out of a entire year. Now consider that there are only 20 or fewer campsites and of that 20 or so only half are really good sites with shade, close to restrooms, etc. and then those 10 good sites are occupied by full time residents. What is left for the rest of the public? How Is that in any way fair? You plan on spending a few days camping only to find out when you arrive that the only sites available are out in the open with no shade or long distances to the rest rooms and the good sites are all occupied with "homesteaders". As a minimum the 14 day rule should be enforced year round. Like you said "the good spots would probably not be available anyway" but as it is now it is almost assured.
