I ran across these in F&S about a year ago. I have used the pitzen knot a lot since then. I find it easier to tie with old, cold, stiff, fat fingers & bad eyesight than the clinch knot I had been using. I forgot how to tie the other one because I don't use it as much so I did a search & here it is. http://www.fieldandstream.com/fields...785555,00.html