So, just to clarify a little fishing myth...

**artcarney_agr** · 01-29-2019, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by M R Dux

I've been concerned about the Asian Carp for years and have voiced my opinion, most of the time to deaf ears. Nobody is happier to see the steps being taken to help the commercial fishermen make more $$ off their extremely hard labor. For whatever reason, the steps like the ice house and transfer stations is something that had been proposed for years. I guess the government moves at a snail's pace most of the time.

One thing that I can't get out of my mind is this: once all this $$ is spent to help the fishing industry, does anybody think they will try to work themselves out of a job? The Asian market for these carp is being served by a regional company that is growing yearly. Don't get me wrong, I'm tickled to see any efforts to get rid of the carp. I'm just concerned that once all the infrastructure is set in place, we will see numbers of the carp taken each year but the total eradication will never happen. Our lakes and rivers could possibly end up with a stable population that will feed the Asian demand for these fish. Could we possibly see the lakes being used as a big part of the supply chain? We provide the place to raise the fish while a huge part of the $$ being made off the carp goes to some multi-national companies that could care less about the effects of the carp on our fisheries.

Food for thought.

It takes a lot of public interest to force things to happen....it's all about votes, sad but true. If the voting public cares enough about something, it will finally get attention. The Asian Carp just haven't received enough attention from the general public until recently when the silvers showed up in good numbers. The bighead have been in there since the 90s and I saw my first silver in KY Lake in 2007. KDFWR has been trying to make headway for many years, but it takes additional funding to get things done. Sadly once public opinion finally gains enough steam the problem is already out of hand.

I share the same worry as you, that a subsidized industry is being created that some people will rely on heavily for their livelihood. If a means of eradication is ever found, the choice to put it to use will see pushback from those making a living off of the invasive species.

I don't think the overseas demand is all that great, or we would see a higher price per pound without a needed subsidy. They are mainly going into surimi to give it a little better flavor, I have no idea how many people eat surimi overseas but I just can't see it being a major market, who knows though, maybe I'm wrong on that.

One thing I did read the other day is that the lobster industry is facing a bait shortage of herring. A study was recently completed to see if the Asian Carp could survive live transport to the northeast and Canada to be used as a substitute for herring. Just last month Canada approved Asian Carp for use as lobster bait. Asian Carp start rotting away so quickly, so they would have to be transported alive to Canada and then killed just before being cut into bait. The fact that they start rotting so quickly is why the ice house and valet service were so crucial in getting carp guys out on the lakes instead of the rivers closer to the processor. If the fish are too far gone, they can't be used for human consumption and go into fertilizer instead.

It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out and continues to evolve. Last year we only had about 2 million pounds of Asian Carp harvested, the goal has been set to hit 20 million pounds per year by 2024. We've got processors in Wickliffe, Paducah, Mayfield, Ledbetter, and Hickman and all together they have the capacity to handle the processing goal. I never understood why Riverine Fisheries couldn't bring their processing boat from Hickman up to KY Lake, it's a 350' ship that's worked on the Bering Sea and has been converted over to process Asian Carp specifically.

**CrappiePappy** · 01-29-2019, 12:06 PM

Yeah, it was my understanding that the Asian market hinged on the fact that "our" Asian Carp TASTED better to them than the ones coming out of their heavily polluted waters.

And I, too, have thought about & voiced my concern that once established and profitable, the processing plants wouldn't want to "eradicate" their supply. The commercial fishing guys/gals would have to wait a few years for their preferred catch to rebound in size & numbers, once the Asian Carp were eradicated ... so they'd suffer in the interim.

**perchjerker108** · 01-29-2019, 02:13 PM

To all, I'm kinda like all of you researching everything on these things. The Asian Carp are here to stay in KY and Barkley based on what I could find. The Commercial people will never be without a job unless there are thousands of them netting year round. I admire them, got to be a tough and nasty job for what has been very little money recently. Looks like the 'Asian Market' people want the fish alive. They will pay big bucks for 'Alive' fish, but this will not be possible as far a I know. Looks like the best thing we can do is get them from the lake to a processor ASAP and get them flash frozen for shipment. They will buy these but looks like it's about 10-15% of what you would get for 'Live' fish. If not frozen before they go bad, they are pretty much useless for sale. Looks like our KYDF&W people are spending time on the Commercial fishing boats to see how many (Non Asian Carp, bycatch) are caught in nets and seeing if something like a Largemouth Bass will still survive after being accidently caught in a net and released. There's got to be several other fish (non-rough) captured in all these nets. Hopefully, they get thrown back and survive.

**GREENFISH** · 01-29-2019, 09:45 PM

Lots of good insight fellas

Sent from my iPhone using Crappie.com

**artcarney_agr** · 01-30-2019, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by perchjerker108

Looks like our KYDF&W people are spending time on the Commercial fishing boats to see how many (Non Asian Carp, bycatch) are caught in nets and seeing if something like a Largemouth Bass will still survive after being accidently caught in a net and released. There's got to be several other fish (non-rough) captured in all these nets. Hopefully, they get thrown back and survive.

You would enjoy reading the 2018 report. It covers exactly what you are talking about starting around page 37. Some species caught in the nets have a lower survival rate than others (like paddlefish for example, they have a very low survival rate).

https://fw.ky.gov/Fish/Documents/2018_CSI_APR.pdf

This page on KDFWR has a lot of great links and documents if you wish to learn more about the asian carp problem: Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife
Asian Carp Information

**redearhoosier** · 01-30-2019, 03:18 PM

What Doug alluded to is perhaps the most interesting part of this whole story. I've thought about it as well and it stands to reason that once this becomes a profitable business, they won't want to kill the Golden Goose.

Of course if the Asians slap an extremely high demand on these fish, a good capitalist will certainly meet their demand!! It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. The commercial fishermen might find himself in a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation.

**perchjerker108** · 01-31-2019, 05:36 PM

Readear, from what I got from MR's post is that the 'golden goose' will forever be at Ky and Barkley lakes. I think he, along will me, believe the Carp will be there from now on and the lakes will keep producing endless numbers year by year even with the commercial efforts. (Hopefully, we will have some bad weather to kill some off). If the commercial fisherman don't continue to knock down the numbers each year, the lakes will be 95% by volume, (my guess) Asian Carp. I'm guessing now it's at least 60-70% by volume/weight now with Carp. The Lakes (since the carp are now here) are the perfect breeding ground for millions of these fish which we have no idea how to irradiate or control at this time. So, hopefully, the price of the fish will truly be a 'golden goose incentive' to keep the commercial guys knocking down the numbers for the future of the lakes. From what I can tell, the Asian markets will take everything and more of what we can ship to them if we give them a good product.

**artcarney_agr** · 01-31-2019, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by perchjerker108

The Lakes (since the carp are now here) are the perfect breeding ground for millions of these fish

That is incorrect, they cannot spawn in the lake unless there is enough current to keep the eggs high enough in the water column to survive. I believe it's been a few years since we had a strong enough current during a spring flood that they were able to actually spawn in the lake.

As of right now, they spawn easily below the dam, and then are able to move upstream through the lock. If the Bio-Acoustic Fish Fence (BAFF) test proves successful, there is hope that the carp will be at least kept below the dam, then commercial fishing efforts in the lake will get rid of the majority remaining in the lake. The BAFF won't totally solve the problem, but will greatly reduce the numbers getting into the lake via the lock at the dam.

"An interagency team led by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the Nashville District of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, with support from the U.S. Geological Survey, University of Minnesota, U.S. Coast Guard, and the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, is combining funding, technical expertise and staff to construct a research plan that should put the Fish Guidance System acoustic bubbler system below Barkley Dam....Testing will occur over a three-year period. Most likely, officials will remove the barrier system after the test...The research goals include determining the effectiveness of a sound barrier system at restricting or reducing movement of Asian carp through lock chambers; assessing the system’s resiliency; and determining the barrier’s effect on movement of native fish species through lock chambers. Information gathered from this research will be important to future tests at other dams in the Mississippi River and Ohio River basins. The potential importance of cost-effective, barrier deterrence systems cannot be overstated."

https://kentucky.gov/Pages/Activity-stream.aspx?n=FishandWildlife&prId=256

**artcarney_agr** · 01-31-2019, 06:06 PM

The BAFF was supposed to be installed this fall, but was postponed. I haven't heard what the rescheduled install date is.

**Quackrstackr** · 02-01-2019, 05:44 PM

I've bow shot a boat load of these things below the dams in the summer when the water is crystal clear. They will stage up stationary in a brush pile just like a predatory fish. Only difference is they're just sitting there opening and closing their mouths pumping water to feed just like always and letting the current pull the plankton for them.

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