Thread: Remington

Very well put, and yes sub MOA 5 shot group consistently is very hard for most to accomplish. And to meet the controlled environment that companies use to push that guarantee is almost non existent. Pretty hard to find a 100 yard indoor range with vise etc. I agree, cut product line back and raise QC and CS and regain a foothold in market. I believe they are getting much better with QC from the 2 I bought in the last 6 months and was very relieved on both counts. I hope big green and Marlin can get spun around and not only recover but return to the name recognition they once held.

Originally Posted by wicklundrh

I would say that the MOA argument does have some validity to it. One big push right now is that everyone seems to want to get involved in "Long Range Shooting". Remington has not pushing theirselves into this long range platform that is all the rage right now. That isn't to say that I couldn't take a standard off the shelf model 700 and turn it in to a long range weapon that will equal anything out there, but rather the fact that it isn't offered "off the shelf" as other companies have done. This makes it "easier" for people. On the flip side, once purchased, they can no longer blame the gun when they cannot put 3 round in a 2inch circle at 200 yards (or 1 inch at 100 yards).

As a trained Marine Corps sniper and marksmenship training instructor, I can say with pretty good certainty that the average joe rifleman cannot shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards regardless of the rifle he is holding. That isn't in a bench secured vise or a caldwell leadsled. But, by taking the "gun" out of the eqaution, people are more apped to pick something up off the shelf knowing that it already has the potential to do something as opposed to trying to make something do it without realizing that it is the shooter and not the gun in a lot of instances.

Another issue has to do with their bushmaster lineup. The number one purchased rifle in America at the present time is the AR platform. Unfortunately, the Bushmaster name has been associated with garbage or bottom of the barrel. They are competing with larger, bigger and better names. So, when you are not selling even a small percentage of the largest piece of pie taken out of the gun market, you can see where the economics can quickly shift. Sure, you can sell shotguns, you can sell rifles, but, when you cannot sell a small percentage of the largest and most popular weapon being sold today, you are losing money.

Their issue has been that they have not kept up with the times like other companies have. The older generation (myself included) already owns several weapons. Rifles in several different calibers, tons of different shotguns, muzzle loaders, pistols etc... We don't need to purchase the same old things. We are looking for specifics. The new generation of purchaser is where they are going to make a gross sum of their money. Unfortunately, when you are not doing the two things mentioned above, then you are not appealing to the younger generation that is purchasing weapons today.

They have a pistol lineup but, unfortunately, nobody has really heard of it. Looking at it right now, they are not really doing anything WELL. The number one selling pistol is NOT a Remington (or top 20 for that matter). The number one selling platform (AR) is NOT a bushmaster (or 10 for that matter), and the number one selling long range rifle is not a Remington (which isn't to say they don't make quality rifles because they do), you have problems. Heck, even the shotgun line is up for debate and, as a form of entertainement, the younger generation simply isn't getting into the sport of trap and skeet.

What's the answer? Go back to doing what you did well and stick to it. Then make it better. Get rid of the bushmaster lineup or create something new and different. Throw your pistols in the toilet and go back to the drawing board. Make your shotguns rival the better ones on the market, and recapture your rifle lineup. Stop trying to introduce 100 poorly made products and instead, introduce 1 or 2 exceptional ones. When you have too many rifles in your inventory, a person will simply look at all of them, scratch their heads, and go purchase a sub MOA weapon from someone else because they cannot figure out which gun to purchase in the Remington lineup.

You raise some good points, but i feel you fail to recognize others.
#1 THE YOUTH, most today aren't really interested, especially in hunting.
They would much rather be playing with a computer, and so would many younger adults.
I come from a state which has always been among the top 3 in hunting license sales, that being PA.
This past season was my 70th year hunting in that state.
I can tell you that more than half of the hunting camps no longer have hunters on the first day of the buck season.
Used to be that the schools were shut down state wide for the first 3 days of buck season.
The popularity of the AR type guns primarily isn't from hunters, it comes from the new breed of shooters who enjoy seeing things blow up and fall over. Visit any uncontrolled public shooting range and witness what takes place.
Not saying they aren't accurate, or be made to be accurate, but that's not the goal of most of the owners.
Yes the TACTICOOL look is having a big impact, but most are just a regular bolt action gun in a different looking stock, many of which are bought after market.
I guess many of the backward hat set haven't quite figured that out yet.
Just take a look at many of the magazine adds today, most showcase a shooter or hunter who is a mean looking real man, i suppose to make poor Joe relate himself to that image also.
As for the growing popularity of long range shooting, Remington has been involved for a very long time, including supplying sniper rifles for the military.
Very few others have produced target rifles such as their 40x for example, and no other action even comes close for use in building accurate rifles with as does the 700 series actions.
Serious long range shooters don't buy factory guns anyway, they have them built, and many use Rem actions.
Remingtons problems are for sure management related, as most business failures are, but i don't think the lack of a good quality AR is the cause of it.
Fact is the way things are shaping up, they might be glad they didn't put more of their eggs in that basket.