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Thread: LiveScope Questions for Deep Thinkers - LS vs SideScan

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    Default LiveScope Questions for Deep Thinkers - LS vs SideScan


    PawPaw Gene and myself are good friends. A day or so ago he brought up a question that really made me wonder.

    Why does SideScan show shadows (behind objects) and LS does not?

    The technologies are different and Gene and I are curious to learn.
    Can anyone help us out?

    By-the-way
    Gene is still dealing with Myasthenia Gravis (MG). It’s a heck of a disease, but he is a trooper. We talk on a regular basis and he is fighting the battle. He was diagnosed about a year and a half ago after only a couple of trips with his brand new Livescope. We are still planning to fish together and I plan to show him the things I’ve learned since he was forced off the water. Please continue to pray for our buddy…
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    Good question, Dan !!

    Livescope in Perspective Mode shows shadows, so it may just be the shadows are there when using forward facing mode, but the bottom glare swallows up those shadows or the shadows disappear in the distance.

    Then again it could be the design of the software to show the on-screen images differently. Sidescan takes images as the boat moves, while Livescope takes images continuously, whether or not the boat is moving. If the boat isn't moving or is moving very slowly, Sidescan images are almost static or collectively placed on top of each other and basically smeared across the screen. Livescope simply continues to show a "live" screen presentation, capturing movement & static images even while the boat isn't moving.

    It's kinda like : Sidescan = camera pics taken in rapid succession & Livescope = video camera images.
    Last edited by CrappiePappy; 01-08-2025 at 02:58 PM.

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    My 360 also shows shadows. I think that the shadow vs no shadow in views is in the programming of what story or image that the marketing gurus specified to the programmers.
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    SideScan, 360, and landscape/perspective are generated into an image as if the user were ”hovering above the lake bottom looking down thru the water” ...

    2d, DownScan, and FFS are generated into an image as if the user were ”standing on the lake bottom looking sideways thru the water” ...

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    I am waiting for a reply from Garmin. Will post their reply when it arrives.

    I’ve asked Garmin techs many times why they didn’t have a forum for questions like this. They supposed it was because Garmin didn’t want to expose their proprietary technology. Not sure how true that is, but the questions about Garmin forums still remains.

    As far as I am aware, user to user is our only source for unanswered questions. And in many cases we are just quessing.

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    I rec’d a prompt reply from Garmin. Below are copies of our conversation. To be honest. Have yet to learn much from the replies. Maybe someone reading these replies can explain and clarify.

    Me -
    Why does SideScan show shadows and LS FFS doesn’t?


    Why does LS perspective show shadows and LS FFS doesn’t?


    Garmin -
    Side-scan sonar from a GT56 differs from LiveScope in that the GT56 only uses one element for each side, thus when the signal hits a target, the area behind that target does not give a return. Think of it like shining a flashlight at a wall. If you only use one flashlight and move your hand into the beam, there will be a shadow cast on the wall, but if you add a second flashlight at an angle the avoids the hand, the shadow disappears. Thus, since the LiveScope systems each have three elements covering one direction at varying angles, the shadow are not as noticeable, if they are present at all. Let me know if you have any other questions.

    Me -
    Why does Perspective show shadows, whereas Forward doesn’t?


    Also in your reply you mentioned “3 elements”. I thought there were 5.

    Garmin -
    There is only 3 elements, as seen on the bottom of the transducer, you can see each line where there is beam / element for each direction. Forward, backwards, and straight down.


    Perspective is just in a lot shallow of water to where in brighter conditions you will be able to see shadows, sometimes it can also just be reflection of the fish / object off the surface.

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    #1 makes sense, #2, I’m not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinp61 View Post
    #1 makes sense, #2, I’m not sure.
    I'm with you, Justin.

    #1 explanation is more easily understood knowing that SideScan only uses 1 piezo on each side. Shadow's there because there's no competing signal from the other two piezos lighting up the area behind/below the fish, like there is on FFS.

    #2 explanation just don't give me enough info. Now, if he'd said Perspective Mode only utilized the forward piezo, that might have made more sense to me. From what I've seen of LS in Perspective Mode, in videos & pics, I'm not so sure about the shadows being "reflections" (or even shadows caused by the Sun in clear, shallow water).

    Besides ... when you're in FF Mode, what you see on the screen ... as far as "the bottom" ... shows as just a thin line. When you're in Perspective Mode the bottom is a wide swath ahead of you, because you're using all three piezos "sideways".
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    Concerning #1-
    The example of the second flashlight shining in the back of the first doesn’t seem to hold true IF the shadow is cast in the same ”slice” as the object.

    For example an upright tree-
    The shadow cast at the very bottom of the tree would not be blotted out by any light from the next ”slice”, since the bottom of the tree and also the shadow at the bottom of the tree are in the same slice.

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    Imagine three guys standing a few feet apart, each with a flashlight, all shining on a 1 1/2" pipe 50' away. Think of it as bicycle spokes and hub, the flashlights are at the wheel, the spokes are the beams, and the target is the hub. There isn't going to much of a shadow because of the angles of the lights.

    I'm still ruminating on #2.

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