puzzled!!!!

[crappie1133]

i am very interested in the Garmin Striker SV. as I have stated before on this forum. If Garmin originally packaged these units with GT 52 transducers, how could they sell them for $499. They now pack them with clear view CT transducers. You can't find them with the GT transducers and to buy a GT transducer cost about $300 bucks.You can't buy them without a transducer.Did Garmin go up on the GT transducers after the lawsuit?Am I missing something? After reading this forum daily it seems that the GT transducers are the best performing. It would seem that Garmin would be better served if they would give a rebate to those who want or would prefer the better transducer. I don't have any warm fuzzy feelings toward Garmin and it seems they are milking a bad situation and taking out their loss on potential customers. Anyone else have funny feelings regarding this situation. ......thanks guys for letting me vent. Still have to come to some solution. thanks.....crappie1133

[hays47]

Unless Garmin was forcing you to buy their products I can't see your point of view. You have many options other than the striker unit you mention. I use both Humminbird products and Garmin. Some things Garmin does better others Humminbird has the edge. Research an entry level MFD from another maker to see if one of their models suit your need.

If the Panoptix technology is in your future plans. Then Garmin would have to be your choice. If not then you have many good options.

[TeeDee]

I may be incorrect here, but does not HB also offer entry level units that have blended di/dv? Unsure of Lowr. I think most of the reports have come back from real users saying that unless you are DEEP then the cv seems to work for them--may have to tweak the settings some. A lot of folks do that on a daily basis regardless of the unit brand. None of them are set and forget unless your conditions never change. IMO you need to talk to someone who is not a brand warrior and can give you clear-cut info. If you're not happy going in, chances are you won't be after the fact. Call Brian. Rickie is another good resource, straight shooter. Wish you good luck in your search. Took me a long time to decide when I bought mine.

[rnvinc]

Bass Pro has Garmin 93sv CHIRP on 6hr black Friday sale 11-24 for $599 ...

Page 5 in the below link ...

https://www.blacknfriday.com/bass-pr...riday-ad-2017/

That's a heck of a deal for a 9" display unit with xducer ... And capable of Panoptix (if Panoptix is in the future expansion plan) ...

Here's the specs ...:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/529893

Rickie

[crappie1133]

Ricky, was hoping you would respond. It seems that my above comments were taken out of contex. What I was concerned about is the transducer that comes with this unit. Is it a CV or GT. Is the CV comparable to the GT. Will I be disapointed? Maybe if I was aware of all the ins and outs regarding sonars, I would have a different outlook. Will the CV do as good as a GT?As you said this is a great price, but if you will not be satisfied, no price is a good price. Any comments regarding
the transducers and the Garmin units would be appreciated, as your opinion carries a lot of weight.I have been studing the Garmins and like them a lot. I just have the feeling that it's not as good as before they changed transducers..........Thanks for any comments..... crappie1133

[rnvinc]

It is unlikely to find a bundled unit with the GT included ... Those would be really old stock ... Back before the 1st litigation that made Garmin cease adding the GT xducer in bundled units ...

It seems from current reports Garmin will still be bundling the CV xducer going forward ... Garmin has released no info on that reported decision - nor any decision to offer the GT xducer in any type of concession for customers... (Doing so could infer they were wrong in the whole GT vs CV debate and that ain't gonna happen) ...
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It is a fact the CV xducers do not have a dedicated DI piezo ... but instead blends the data from the SI piezoes and computer generates that SI data into a DI "looking" view ... (Similar to the well documented and discussed Humminbird "DI from SI" technology in place since early 2011) - (I can explain that HB decision at another time) ...

The "engineering" important point to understand in that scenario is that any piezoe's sound pulse is factually going to be stronger along the "Main Axis" of that sound pulse (which is approximately 30° from horizontal in a HB SI piezo - as seen in the beam form depiction below) ...

This leaves any target farther away from the "Main Axis" (targets under the boat) not reflecting as much of the sound pulse echo strength and those targets under the boat will not be painted as "distinctly" in the DI (from SI) image ...

The analogy I use in my seminars is ... imagine pointing a flashlight at your shoes (dedicated DI) = and your shoes will be illuminated very well ...

Now imagine pointing a flashlight left and a flashlight right at about 30° from horizontal (DI from SI) = and your shoes are still going to be illuminated - just not as well ...

Now that does not mean DI from SI is junk - it simply means that SI piezoes cannot (technologically) receive as strong of echoes from targets directly under the boat as a dedicated DI piezo pointing straight down (think flashlights again) ...

The good news is - the GT xducers can still be purchased and will still work with these units ... and I simply feel it should be considered an xducer upgrade that some users may want (if DI is important to that user's fishing methods) ...

Rickie

[crappie1133]

Rickie, great explanation, as always and thanks.....does humminbird still use this technology.......crappie1133

[rnvinc]

Rickie, great explanation, as always and thanks.....does humminbird still use this technology.......crappie1133

HB uses "DI from SI" technology in the following ...:

*All numbered series SI units ...
*All HELIX G1 series SI units ...
*All HELIX G2 series SI units ...
*HELIX 7 G2N series SI units ...
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HB uses dedicated DI technology in the following ...:

*HELIX G2N MEGA series units ...
*ONIX SI series units ...
*SOLIX SI series units ...
*All DI series units (regardless of generation genealogy) ...

Note: ONIX Sonar series and SOLIX Sonar series can aquire dedicated DI with the optional purchase of the DI xducer for that model ...

Rickie

[TeeDee]

Rickie--your post #6 is an excellent read, full of useful data points. Curious about an item or two that you may be able to answer. I do remember the p and v contest on another site about these ducers. If you are shallow, then the blended signals could/should overlap --even sufficiently--on 800 si, but more so on 455 si. Am I reading this correctly? I know I've seen some impressive Garmin cv40 pics here that were less than 25-30 fow. And my late friend had a smaller number series HB that I promise you if it showed a pile or a stump below, then prepare to get bit or hung cause it was there. However, we never fished in 20 fow. 15 was closer to the max on that system. So, without seeing values attached to the axis, I was curious as to whether you had data to suggest that overlap could happen at less than __ fow? Thanks. Appreciate the insight

[rnvinc]

It's important to understand that Sonar efficiency (how distinctly a target is painted on the display) is simply based on how much of the sound pulse can be reflected back to the xducer from each individual target ... More sound pulse strength reflected per target = more distinct painting of the target on the Sonar display ..

There are several conditions that dictate how much of the sound pulse strength can be reflected back to the xducer ... :

*Target reflectivity (Sonar detects differences in target density from the water itself) ...
*Target angle toward xducer (fish sideways don't make as large a target as a fish perpendicular to the xducer) ...
*Lateral target distance from Main Axis (targets in the outer fringe of sound pulse do not reflect as much sound pulse) ...
*Linear target distance from xducer (targets farther away don't reflect as much sound pulse as closer targets) ...

The CV debate of "DI from SI" is centered around the last 2 bullet points above combined ...

1. Targets directly under the boat are in the outer fringes of the "side-pointing" SI sound pulse beams ...
2. Number 1 above is compounded the deeper (farther away again) the target is under the boat ...

So shallower water allows targets directly under the boat to still give relatively strong echo reflections ... even tho those targets may be in the outer fringes of the "side-pointing" SI sound pulse beams ...

And deeper water allows targets directly under the boat to suffer sound pulse reflectively exponentially the deeper (farther away) that target is from the xducer ...

Rickie