For those that fish Corp's lakes.

[TAE73]

Something that we all need to read if you fish a Corp of Engineer run lake.

ESPN - Betrayed by the Corps

[8fishermen]

That makes me angry!!!!

[rockmike]

The Corps is a self-serving, rogue agency that has probably done more harm to our environment than any entity in our history. Probably ought to count to 100 before posting this, but--------

[Darryl Morris]

Very interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. I think this single statement, "Anglers only asked for the ability to fish around the boat storage docks, which is often the only significant form of fish habitat available", in the letter by Chris Horton sent to Colonel Jackson is particularly significant to us as crappie anglers. Not being able to legally fish the docks supports the need for all Corps lakes to have an EFFECTIVE habitat program. I say "effective" because they do have habitat programs, but I've seen the insignificant results firsthand. Just cutting and felling the head a pine or sweet gum tree toward the lake that's not even in the water 90% of the time isn't effective habitat. An effective habitat program will have cover as deep as 40+ feet to as shallow as 5 foot deep. Admittedly, a military organization who doesn't like being told what to do serving a civilian mass is like oil and water.

[TreeMyDog]

I have often wondered why the COE charges the public for using the facilities which the taxpayers paid for.

I realize that these facilities must be maintained.

However, the taxpayers also funded electric generators on many COE lakes.

The revenues produced by selling electricity from these public owned generators should far exceed the money required to maintain the COE facilities.

Just my 2 cents.

[Roughneck]

Gentlemen,
You must understand that the Corp. has no concern about wheather you and I fish or don't fish THEIR lakes. They only care about flood control and electricty generation. I live in Arkansas and as far I know we get no revenue from the electricty generated from our water. As of Nov. 4, 2008 we are headed toward a socialist nation. We are loseing our rights, enjoy them while you can.

[Arkie John]

GENERAL PERSPECTIVE:

First of all, I would like for each of you to review our history a bit. It was not uncommon in the 20's and 30's and before, for a farmer that lived on the Arkasnas River to go to bed on the north side and the next morning, wake up on south side of the river.

Before the Corps of Engineers came into play the Arkansas River was little more than a mecurical, muddy little river that could not be depended upon for much. Oh, there was a LITTLE good fishing, when it had water in it. But people don't remember that time because it was another era...unless you're 90, you would not have known--but you can research and see the photos for yourself.

Without the efforts of the Corps of Engineers, you would not have access to ANY of the beautiful lakes created by tax dollars so long ago because they would not be in existence! Where would you be without the deep clear-water impoundments--no Tablerock, no Beaver, no Bull Shoals, no Norfork.

Now for LOCAL PERSPECTIVE:

Lincoln stated that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." (or words close thereabouts). Calling the Corps a 'rogue' agency is not only untrue, but it displays a lack of perspective on the writer.

Since the original post was concerning Arkansas lakes, I'll keep it there. Arkansas is split into two Corps Divisions. At first glance at the map, it doesn't look like it makes sense how it is divided, basically caddi-cornered across the state. But Arkansas is divided by watersheds. Does it make sense now?

Colonel Jackson is the colonel that is in control of the LITTLE ROCK District only. This district includes the lakes, Beaver, Bull Shoals, Tablerock, Norfork, Greers Ferry, Blue Mountain, Ozark, Clearwater, Nimrod, Millwood, Dierks, DeQueen, Gillham, Dardanelle. (seems there is one I left out)

The VICKSBURG District (the district hq is in Vicksburg, MS) controls Degray, Greeson and Ouachita.

Now, the policy in question is a local policy of the LITTLE ROCK District and does NOT affect Vicksburg lakes. Although these two districts work for the same headquarters in DC, they do things drastically different, so don't forget that. How do they not conform under the hq, I dunno, but let's keep to the point.

On Vicksburg lakes, the marinas lease certain public property (dry land) and are allowed to place their approved structures upon public waters to serve the public and the public only. The Corps is not in this game to make money--believe it. These marina operators pay a small amount to the GENERAL treasury (usually less than 3% depending upon their yearly gross)-not the Corps treasury--for the privilege of placing multi-million dollar facilities with their own financing...for the service to the public.

In Vicksburg, the marina owners' leases reflect that they lease the dry land and NOT the water. That is NOT the case in the Little Rock District. In LR District, they lease certain dry land AND certain water acreage in their 'footprint.' So...the letter to Col Jackson, as eloquent as it is (and I DO agree with BASS's position) does not apply IN THE LEAST to Vicksburg lakes.

If you fish LR District Lakes, it is my hope and prayer that fishermen prevail in this case. I worked for LR District for many years. I learned (and you must too) that these facilities that you paid for were put in place for three basic reasons: (1) Flood Control (2) commercial navigation and finally (3) recreation. So like it or not, fishermen are not the first and foremost in the consideration of their policies. It's just a fact of life. If this letter is to do any good, instead of sending a COPY to congressional and senatorial representatives, the letter should be addressed to EACH and EVERY one of them as the intended recipient. In turn, the representatives individually peg LR District to give them direct answers, to which you will receive a direct response from the rep. The Corps will NOT ignore public representation inquiries (called congressional inquiries by the Corps). There is a short-fuzed timetable for the Corps to respond to ANY congressional inquiry. On the other hand, they can choose to ignore BASS or any other organization, if they choose.

The bottom line is that (1) the Corps is sensitive to congressional inquires.
(2) Little Rock District directives have no bearing on Vicksburg-managed lakes. (3) These lakes and lands are NOT Corps owned...they are PUBLICALLY owned and Corps MANAGED and sometimes they must be reminded of that.

FUNDING

Finally, there is little in the way of funding that comes back to the Corps from electricity, marina revenues or camping/launch fees. That money goes directly into the general treasury and the Corps hates it, believe me. The only money I am aware of that goes back to the individual projects (lakes) is timber money sold off public corps-managed land. That money goes directly back. But Arkansas has little in the way if timber sales, maybe five a year statewide. The maintenance is costly and must be considered. W/o maintenance monies, you will see many closed parks. It's a fact of life. Once you buy a car, the costs do not stop there. Maintenance is reality and must be funded or the public will be facing closed facilities. Go buy a $30 yearly pemit to launch or use AG&F ramps and be done with it. If you're over 65, you can get half off of everything--but you probably know that already.

I remember when getting to Ouachita (Crystal Springs) was a chore. There was an old muddy road that had two holes the size an 18 wheeler, foreboding to any fisherman in an old pickup truck full of fishin' gear. Once we got to the water there was an old man there in a shack built on a wooden pier that sold the least of bait, and rented out 10 or 20 old wooden cypress boats and paddles. No one had a motor back then, but the fishin' was good.

Now, I see all the pavement, the nice hot water showers, the clear water and electric camping facilities. I see where many folks like tournament fishermen and fishing guides make their living off Corps lakes (gosh those boat are shiny and those super-fancy si electronics take some purdy photos most of us can't even THINK about affording). So when you go to cuss the Corps, I'm gonna tell you, make sure that it could be possible that you don't have all the answers or facts and choose your words carefully.

They (the Corps) are far from perfect, but if it wasn't for them, you'd be a bless-ed bank walker, grubbin' for a limit any way you could get it, fishin' sub-standard waters, if at all, only wishin' for a good place to fish. It's all about perspective.

I think it would be good to support the efforts of BASS in this issue of the 50-foot no-fishin' rule of the Little Rock District though...just keep things in perspective. Write your representatives and the Corps will have to answer them.

Now, is ANYBODY catchin' any fish?


Arkie John

To one all: "It's okay to say, 'Merry Christmas!' "

[PawPaw Gene]

Very well put AJ. If those are truly the facts then we stand educated. Thanks for the history lesson also. Since I don't fish Corps impoundments, this doesn't affect me very much at this time. I understand the feeling of helplessness when those in charge of our resources do something that seem so senseless. Channeling our numbers in the right direction can perhaps get them to be more accountable to us. Thanks for pointing the way.

One thing I can absolutely agree with is "MERRY CHRISTMAS" to one and all.
"gene"

[Darryl Morris]

Great reply Arkie John. Most everything you said I knew and you articulated very well. Based on your reply I assume you work for the Corps. In that case, I'd like to hear your input on my comment about habitat programs. See you on the water brother.

[The Lip RIPPERS]

We have open public meetings here with an invited Corps rep. After other states tried to fly under the radar to get our water [this all went on during 5 years of drought!] Thanks to a private group of citzens who formed the "Save our Water" they have assembled the State Representatives along with the Corps to manage our lake [now officially recognized as recreational] to improve the lake for all concerned,it can work but you cant win e'm all either but at the least their willing to hear the taxpayer / sportsmans voice on hotbutton issues involving them....hope this inspires a new look approach to adressing your concerns on your Corps lakes.