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View Full Version : Live bait vs. Artificial experiment - Need some input



floppingcrappie
10-25-2017, 01:43 PM
So I have going through some comments on a video where a filmed a "live" (dead) minnow vs. a plastic minnow sprayed with scent (slab sauce). There seem to be quite a few comments saying that the challenge/ experiment was stacked in favor of the plastic minnow because I used a dead "live" minnow, instead of keeping the minnow alive. My argument is that as long as both baits are placed at the same depth under a slip bobber setup, then I should use a dead minnow because a live minnow would have an unfair advantage of movement. Also I should note that I did not move or jig the either rod. I'd like to here some thoughts on this because to me the logic is sound, unless I am completely missing something.

Thanks for all input.

-Flopping Crappie

ad1974
10-25-2017, 02:50 PM
I guess I could see where some might not take that as a true live bait vs. artificial challenge if the "live" bait isn't really alive.Now if your comparing the results of the scent of a real minnow vs. the scent of slab sauce on plastic then I think your right that the added movement of a live minnow would throw off the results.

floppingcrappie
10-25-2017, 03:02 PM
I guess I could see where some might not take that as a true live bait vs. artificial challenge if the "live" bait isn't really alive.Now if your comparing the results of the scent of a real minnow vs. the scent of slab sauce on plastic then I think your right that the added movement of a live minnow would throw off the results.

Maybe I should have clarified that in the video. (scent vs. no scent). Thanks for the input

deathb4disco
10-25-2017, 03:02 PM
... I should use a dead minnow because a live minnow would have an unfair advantage of movement.

Maybe the plastic and scent has an unfair advantage of smell. Maybe dead minnows give off a bad smell to fish.

In shark repellant experiments, they found nothing turns off a shark like the smell of a dead shark. (I know this from watching "Shark Week" on Discovery. ;) )

floppingcrappie
10-25-2017, 03:05 PM
Maybe the plastic and scent has an unfair advantage of smell. Maybe dead minnows give off a bad smell to fish.

In shark repellant experiments, they found nothing turns off a shark like the smell of a dead shark. (I know this from watching "Shark Week" on Discovery. ;) )

Haha, shark week is always fun to watch...and educational. I will have to do more research on the scent a dead minnow gives versus a live one. Although, I think how long the minnow had been dead (in my case a matter of minutes) would determine the smell. a minnow that was day for a day would probably smell pretty bad.

deathb4disco
10-25-2017, 03:08 PM
Although, I think how long the minnow had been dead (in my case a matter of minutes) would determine the smell. a minnow that was day for a day would probably smell pretty bad.

In one case, a great white shark was killed near the Farallon Islands off San Francisco. That same day, every great white shark in the vicinity (around 100) disappeared. :yikes

CrappiePappy
10-25-2017, 03:10 PM
IMHO ...
The challenge, as it was conducted, was more or less fair. Or at least as fair as it can be using those two baits in a stationary position.

I think the rub comes because most people don't use dead minnows, as a rule ... and only under certain circumstances use plastics w/o moving them.

Challenges like that can only be as fair as the person doing them dictates, and even then the results can vary from day to day (if not hour to hour). People will usually accept the winner in these challenges, when it's what they normally use to start with. A few may give the "other" bait a try, if they're convinced that the challenge was fair.

Also, it's almost impossible to be absolutely fair in these kinds of challenges, because where you place each bait can make a difference. It's like trying to determine which color jig to use when trolling a spread of jigs of different colors : does catching a few more on one particular color mean that's the best color, or did that color happen to be presented closest to the fish that bit it, or was it the most visible color "at that moment & under the prevailing conditions", or was that fish the most actively feeding one in the bunch ?? One has to wonder, since the other colors are also catching fish .... just maybe not as many ?? And what about the last time ... did that same color produce more fish, or was it a totally different one ?? See what I mean ??!! A fish will rarely pass by one bait to go bite on another one that's a few feet away, and if those baits are in a school of fish ... the more aggressively feeding fish in the school will usually hit the closest one to "them", not pick out their favorite color, shape, size, smell, or its movement when it's several feet away.

Just my :twocents opinion, anyway.

floppingcrappie
10-25-2017, 03:22 PM
IMHO ...
The challenge, as it was conducted, was more or less fair. Or at least as fair as it can be using those two baits in a stationary position.

I think the rub comes because most people don't use dead minnows, as a rule ... and only under certain circumstances use plastics w/o moving them.

Challenges like that can only be as fair as the person doing them dictates, and even then the results can vary from day to day (if not hour to hour). People will usually accept the winner in these challenges, when it's what they normally use to start with. A few may give the "other" bait a try, if they're convinced that the challenge was fair.

Also, it's almost impossible to be absolutely fair in these kinds of challenges, because where you place each bait can make a difference. It's like trying to determine which color jig to use when trolling a spread of jigs of different colors : does catching a few more on one particular color mean that's the best color, or did that color happen to be presented closest to the fish that bit it, or was it the most visible color "at that moment & under the prevailing conditions", or was that fish the most actively feeding one in the bunch ?? One has to wonder, since the other colors are also catching fish .... just maybe not as many ?? And what about the last time ... did that same color produce more fish, or was it a totally different one ?? See what I mean ??!! A fish will rarely pass by one bait to go bite on another one that's a few feet away, and if those baits are in a school of fish ... the more aggressively feeding fish in the school will usually hit the closest one to "them", not pick out their favorite color, shape, size, smell, or its movement when it's several feet away.

Just my :twocents opinion, anyway.

CrappiePappy,

Thank you for the input. I guess there is no real way to make this challenge absolutely fair since the baits are not in the same spot like you said. I would like to do this challenge again to see if the results vary, which is why I wanted input. Thanks again.

crappie cowboy
10-25-2017, 03:56 PM
It seems like you are trying to see if you can trick a crappie into thinking the plastic jig with slab sauce is as good a bait as a minnow. For me I would fish with the real deal [minnow] that jig makers are trying to copy. By the time you pay for the jigs, and the sauce you can buy the real minnow that already has the smell built in. Interesting study though ...:fish

Erin Brewer
10-25-2017, 04:20 PM
Maybe you could try a jig with slab sauce vs a jig tipped with a minnow, artificial scent vs live or dead minnows. Either way i think you do a great job on the video's. Keep em coming!

floppingcrappie
10-25-2017, 04:44 PM
It seems like you are trying to see if you can trick a crappie into thinking the plastic jig with slab sauce is as good a bait as a minnow. For me I would fish with the real deal [minnow] that jig makers are trying to copy. By the time you pay for the jigs, and the sauce you can buy the real minnow that already has the smell built in. Interesting study though ...:fish

The cost of buying a jig and scent vs minnow maybe true, but my goal was to see if live scent or artificial scent worked better. Thanks for the input though. I do plan on doing another video to see if anything changes. Just wanted to see what ppl thought I should change in the experiment.

lowe175
10-25-2017, 04:46 PM
What you've got it some people are die hard minnow or jig people and one or the other will got there feeling hurt. The reel truth is it will change form day to day . These jig vs minnows get some people all out of shape. Only thing I think you might have made it more fair is tip the jig with a minnow and put the SS on the other jig.

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CrappiePappy
10-25-2017, 05:45 PM
It seems like you are trying to see if you can trick a crappie into thinking the plastic jig with slab sauce is as good a bait as a minnow. For me I would fish with the real deal [minnow] that jig makers are trying to copy. By the time you pay for the jigs, and the sauce you can buy the real minnow that already has the smell built in. Interesting study though ...:fish

But, Cowboy .... you're forgetting that minnows die and have to be repurchased a lot more often than the jigs/sauce do. I may have $0.50 invested in a jighead & a single plastic minnow "copy" ... but, I'm also more likely to catch 5 times the number of fish on that jig/plastic than I am on a single minnow (or even $0.50 worth of minnows). :biggrin

rnvinc
10-25-2017, 06:38 PM
Any experiment should reduce variables as much as possible to get a definitive result ...

If the experimental goal is to determine real minner smell vs artificial minner smell then the same identical size/shape/color bait should be used for both participants ...

Smash the minner up and rub it on 1 participant ... Use artificial scent on the 2nd ...
-----

If the goal is the age old argument of jigs vs minners = live minners must be used (because that's how minners are fished) ...

Rickie

Lloakley930
10-25-2017, 07:04 PM
Have 2 dead minnows. One with scent and one without scent.

crappie cowboy
10-25-2017, 08:29 PM
But, Cowboy .... you're forgetting that minnows die and have to be repurchased a lot more often than the jigs/sauce do. I may have $0.50 invested in a jighead & a single plastic minnow "copy" ... but, I'm also more likely to catch 5 times the number of fish on that jig/plastic than I am on a single minnow (or even $0.50 worth of minnows). :biggrin

You are right CP I didn't think about, you old tight wad ...hehe

scrat
10-25-2017, 08:54 PM
I fish with minnows a lot myself. I don't have to buy them as I just catch them out of the family catfish pond. When fishing with the minnows I check them every now and then as to see if one is dead. The reason why is I have found that crappie really go for the live minnow best. I will even change them out if they don't look and act lively enough. Now I do fish with artificial baits some also and I have and keep several kinds and types on board. When the fish want them I will fish with the artificial and I have several different scents bought and some homemade( Shipahoy shared one of these with me). I have been planning on trying the SlabSauce in the future as this is just what us fishermen do. We have to have and try everything at least once and we never know as the fish and lakes are all different and this could be the best thing that I have every used. I am like most other fishermen looking for that secret weapon so to out fish all others. I am old school so I will always have some minnows onboard as well as my black/chartreuse, key lime pie, etc. artificial baits also. Really don't matter what you use or how you use it as long as you are having fun as that's what it's all about. Tight lines and I hope everyone is having a great fall catch.

EarlG
10-26-2017, 09:46 AM
Dead minnows are not very good crappie bait. OP, yes you are missing something.

trypman1
10-26-2017, 10:31 AM
I will go toe to toe with a minnow, using a jig with a crappie nibble, I am going to try the SS. The video was fine, it started this post with a bang, always love to hear the info a review brings to my learning crappie fishing game.

ET Fish
10-26-2017, 11:18 AM
Good video! I think you proved your point well. It would be absolutely impossible to have a completely comparable situation, IMO.

floppingcrappie
10-26-2017, 11:27 AM
Dead minnows are not very good crappie bait. OP, yes you are missing something.

I think the amount of time the minnow had been dead would be a factor, as I pointed this out in previous posts. the minnows were alive up until I put them on the hook. But I do agree crappie would prefer a live minnow vs dead one.

floppingcrappie
10-26-2017, 11:29 AM
Good video! I think you proved your point well. It would be absolutely impossible to have a completely comparable situation, IMO.

Yes, I think I made the mistake of thinking this challenge/ experiment could be replicated. To many variables (time of day, weather, season, water clarity) to try and eliminate in order to test scent. It was still fun to make and I plan on doing more like this. thanks for watching!

scrat
10-26-2017, 01:02 PM
The minnow being alive it swims and wiggles is what I think gets the fishes attention. Where the tails on most artificial baits have movements that look somewhat similar causing the fish to strike at the movement. I also think that smell and taste has a lot to do with this also. If this was not true and they would just hit anything in the water. They would be full of sticks and leaves. :twocents

catchNgrease
10-26-2017, 05:04 PM
I would think a dead minnow would look like a dead minnow to a predator that only eats live prey no matter what it smelled like

CrappiePappy
10-26-2017, 06:16 PM
I would think a dead minnow would look like a dead minnow to a predator that only eats live prey no matter what it smelled like

That may be true, but since it was under a float and the lake wasn't dead calm ... the minnow would have been "moving", even if only barely. That being said, I've caught Crappie (& other fish) on dead minnows, Shad, and Silversides. Many fish, including Crappie, will scarf up dead/dying/struggling Shad ... especially when a Winter die-off is in progress. I have personally dropped a dead minnow back down & had a Crappie grab it ... used cut in half Silversides to catch Crappie during the Spring spawn ... and witnessed my Grandparents & their fishing buddy couple cut dead Shad in half and use them to catch Crappie (though they did apply a little movement by pulling the lines up every now & then). The only equal factors involved in all three of these incidents, was the bait was "dead" & the death occurred during no more than a 2hr time frame.

dhaire
10-27-2017, 07:56 AM
It is my opinion borne out by intense crappie fishing this last year that crappie eat dead minnows as readily as live.


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wicklundrh
10-27-2017, 08:17 AM
Davis,

Got an idea for you to make it as close to the same as possible.

Setup two drop shot rigs (or perch rigs). On one rod, put your minnow on the bottom hook and your plastics on the top hook. On the other rig, reverse it. Put the minnow on the top and the plastic on the bottom.

This will have each rod having the same offering and will let you know if it is depth that they are after or the bait they are after. You could do this first with dead minnows on each rig then do it with live minnows on each rig.

floppingcrappie
10-30-2017, 10:20 PM
Davis,

Got an idea for you to make it as close to the same as possible.

Setup two drop shot rigs (or perch rigs). On one rod, put your minnow on the bottom hook and your plastics on the top hook. On the other rig, reverse it. Put the minnow on the top and the plastic on the bottom.

This will have each rod having the same offering and will let you know if it is depth that they are after or the bait they are after. You could do this first with dead minnows on each rig then do it with live minnows on each rig.


This would be the best way to test the live vs artificial challenge, but in the state of Wisconsin I am only allowed 3 Lures (hooks) in the water at a time. Technically this would be 4 lures (hooks). Otherwise I would film this video.

wicklundrh
10-31-2017, 12:56 PM
Dang rules.

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murdok
10-31-2017, 01:26 PM
Maybe the plastic and scent has an unfair advantage of smell. Maybe dead minnows give off a bad smell to fish.

In shark repellant experiments, they found nothing turns off a shark like the smell of a dead shark. (I know this from watching "Shark Week" on Discovery. ;) )

best week of the year to watch tv. however this world series has been pretty good. as far as the topic i don't know if there's an honest way to compare the two. i've had days when a jig outfished a live minnow and others when minnows was all they wanted, and yet there are days when i can't get to eat anything.

Slab
11-01-2017, 08:23 AM
Billbob only uses the dead minnows floating at the top of the bait bucket (cause he can't hold on to the live ones long enough to get them on a hook), and he catches plenty of crappie. just sayin'

footballcoach
11-01-2017, 12:06 PM
I would think it would be hard for man to produce something they would rather eat than what the Lord provided them naturally. I fish plastics 95 percent of the time because its less trouble. However, I have been worn out by minnow fisherman.