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View Full Version : Oh what a difference between lures of a similar design!



Spoonminnow
08-25-2015, 08:13 AM
I'm big into making my own soft plastics and sometimes get lucky coming up with a unique design. The two pictured below are examples:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/sparkle_zpsc00f5418.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/sparkle_zpsc00f5418.jpg.html)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/rat%20tail%20grub_zpsx3rl3jzq.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/rat%20tail%20grub_zpsx3rl3jzq.jpg.html)

The next photo is that of Big Bite Bait's MinnR grub:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/STS-3T_zpsudqubpft.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/STS-3T_zpsudqubpft.jpg.html)

Big differences exist between the three! :
The top thin flat tailed lure flutters with no angler input, plus a softer plastic is used to insure the tail action.

The rat-spaghetti tail lures differ in that the shapes of the body and tail are different: mine has a flat body making it go through the water differently using certain retrieves than the BBB grub. The plastic is also softer allowing for a very reactive tail action. One last important thing: where the tail attaches to the MinnR is triangular; mine is small as it is uniformly round making for a different action on a slow retrieve.

I gave a friend some rat tails in 2" and his twitch,twitch,twitch retrieve made that spaghetti tail shimmy like a snake, resulting in him catching 5 baby bass in less that five minutes near a dock and weed edges. They wouldn't let the lure pass by without trying to kill it! He rigged it on a jighead less than 1/32 oz and was still able to cast it over 20', keeping it at a depth of less than 3' on a super-slow retrieve all the way back to shore.

The BBB's prong-tail action is still very effective when fish are active - I proved that on a large number of shallow fish on Sunday. But when the bite requires a super slow retrieve or fishing under a stick float, the MinnR falls short and the other two come to the rescue because of a super finesse tail action.
Note: Because the MinnR is made from a harder plastic, the prong tail needs more rod tip action to make it quiver and a harder plastic weighs more requiring a faster retrieve.

The friend I mentioned immediately saw the potential of the rat tail, which is longer than a few other rat tail grubs (ratio of body-to-tail length) and softer texture of the round body of the MinnR and Strike King's grub which has a tiny ball at the end of the tail (not a good idea when small sunnies are around).

Certain presentations cause certain lures to react differently and that can make all the difference in the world when fish in one location are picky when it comes to presentation and lure design. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but my friend is the best angler I know for pan fish and bass (other than myself tsk tsk :biggrin) and if he can't catch them as easily with one lure versus another, I take notice! Of course superstition and presumption may affect anyone's testing of the lures mentioned, but time will always tell. When it comes to curl tail grubs, flat, prong or rat tails always win!!!!

huntinslabs
08-25-2015, 12:42 PM
I'm big into making my own soft plastics and sometimes get lucky coming up with a unique design. The two pictured below are examples:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/sparkle_zpsc00f5418.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/sparkle_zpsc00f5418.jpg.html)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/rat%20tail%20grub_zpsx3rl3jzq.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/rat%20tail%20grub_zpsx3rl3jzq.jpg.html)

The next photo is that of Big Bite Bait's MinnR grub:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/STS-3T_zpsudqubpft.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/Spoon%20Minnow%20tail%20and%20dipped%20creations/STS-3T_zpsudqubpft.jpg.html)

Big differences exist between the three! :
The top thin flat tailed lure flutters with no angler input, plus a softer plastic is used to insure the tail action.

The rat-spaghetti tail lures differ in that the shapes of the body and tail are different: mine has a flat body making it go through the water differently using certain retrieves than the BBB grub. The plastic is also softer allowing for a very reactive tail action. One last important thing: where the tail attaches to the MinnR is triangular; mine is small as it is uniformly round making for a different action on a slow retrieve.

I gave a friend some rat tails in 2" and his twitch,twitch,twitch retrieve made that spaghetti tail shimmy like a snake, resulting in him catching 5 baby bass in less that five minutes near a dock and weed edges. They wouldn't let the lure pass by without trying to kill it! He rigged it on a jighead less than 1/32 oz and was still able to cast it over 20', keeping it at a depth of less than 3' on a super-slow retrieve all the way back to shore.

The BBB's prong-tail action is still very effective when fish are active - I proved that on a large number of shallow fish on Sunday. But when the bite requires a super slow retrieve or fishing under a stick float, the MinnR falls short and the other two come to the rescue because of a super finesse tail action.
Note: Because the MinnR is made from a harder plastic, the prong tail needs more rod tip action to make it quiver and a harder plastic weighs more requiring a faster retrieve.

The friend I mentioned immediately saw the potential of the rat tail, which is longer than a few other rat tail grubs (ratio of body-to-tail length) and softer texture of the round body of the MinnR and Strike King's grub which has a tiny ball at the end of the tail (not a good idea when small sunnies are around).

Certain presentations cause certain lures to react differently and that can make all the difference in the world when fish in one location are picky when it comes to presentation and lure design. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but my friend is the best angler I know for pan fish and bass (other than myself tsk tsk :biggrin) and if he can't catch them as easily with one lure versus another, I take notice! Of course superstition and presumption may affect anyone's testing of the lures mentioned, but time will always tell. When it comes to curl tail grubs, flat, prong or rat tails always win!!!!

Thats a pretty bold statement. Believe I could disprove that real quick bout mid October, here longlining.

Special K
08-25-2015, 05:39 PM
It's great to experiment and take notice of what works and how well it works during the various seasons and changing seasonal conditions. I guess that's what's so intriguing and challenging about crappie fishing. It's pretty cool that you are so analytical to dive into the physics and/or science of the thing and take such copious notice of such details and retain it all as your cumulative findings and/or outcome(s) from which you derive and explain your relative positions, tactical approaches and hypotheses. Interesting indeed.

If you don't mind me asking... what is your profession? You surely must have some type of scientific or engineering background. Thanks for sharing.

Spoonminnow
08-25-2015, 08:37 PM
If you don't mind me asking... what is your profession? You surely must have some type of scientific or engineering background. Thanks for sharing.

Radiology technician and then trained myself as a medical diagnostic sonographer in all specialties; Associate degree with emphasis on animal and human sciences. Retired after 42 years.


so analytical to dive into the physics and/or science of the thing and take such copious notice of such details and retain it all as your cumulative findings and/or outcome(s) from which you derive and explain your relative positions, tactical approaches and hypotheses.

Thanks! The more I learn by experience, the more I realize I don't know. But what I do know is that multiple successes aren't coincidental and there has to be a reason for them day in and day out. All the above fall into the category of hypothesis - an educated guess that tries to put the pieces together to make some logical sense of why something works or doesn't. Chance will always be a factor as well as the activity level or level of fish susceptibility to lures, but regardless of how susceptible, one angler will prove better time after time than another in the same boat using the same or different choice of lure. Longlining curl tail grubs may indeed work better at that time of year, though will never know unless Huntnslabs compares my lures to his. The proof is in the catching and catching fish in different seasons is what determines which lures excel but only in the hands of someone who knows how to use them.

I tried the above three lure types and admit that they all produced well. The water temp was 80, green with algae with weeds continuing to die all over the lake. The best action was in 8-12' using a 1/16 oz. jig head and varying the slow retrieve using the rod tip or reel handle. The Strike King lure worked least well (though it did catch a 1.5 lb catfish in the same water crappie, perch and sunfish swam.) The MinnR worked very well, but especially in a certain color:
super bright florescent pink body/ bright chartreuse prong tail. (Both colors obtained using Spike-It.) But then again the thin-tail grub in bright white did as well as did the clear plastic thin-tail containing chartreuse and black flakes. The question that comes to mind: was color or color brightness important?

The lure specific variables are there for anyone to assess were or weren't important - color, brightness, tail action, body shape. But what was most important IMO was the presentation that was mutually complimentary to some of those lure variables and that is what made neutral fish bite. Of the over 50 fish caught (including the catfish) no one can say all those fish were feeding or active in open water not near any weeds. The same goes for Sunday on a different lake with monster slabs and yellow perch in shallow and deep open water using the same three lure designs accounting for over 50 fish, including a 4lb bass on a 4' deep flat.

The search for the truth (or something close to it) continues....

Cane Pole
08-25-2015, 08:51 PM
Have you ever been over exposed to radiation?

Spoonminnow
08-25-2015, 08:55 PM
Have you ever been over exposed to radiation?


Possibly .... fluoroscopic procedures for hours - head not protected from the secondary radiation. I also wasn't breast fed - could that have something to do with it? lol

lowe175
08-25-2015, 10:35 PM
I make most of my own baits as well. I like to experiment with colors and different types of baits. I agree that rat tail baits are very effective and that's what I use most of the time. I've seen times when a curly tail will out fish a rat tail. Also have had days when a marabou jig was the best. I like to have a I bit of everything. Them are some nice grubs your making too.

Gabepeeps
08-26-2015, 07:10 PM
I microwave all my store bought plastics for 10 -15 seconds. They are made with a denser plastic for durability. But if you zap for 10 seconds, 15 for thicker plastics, they will become more flexible. Learned that from bass fishing with plastic worms. REALLY works well with Senkos.

Spoonminnow
08-26-2015, 08:18 PM
The nice thing about using lures is that: there is no absolute best lure that there will ever be a consensus on primarily because each of us has ways to make our pet favorites work. The very top lure pictured works for me all 12 months.
It's like choosing color: there is no one color we can all agree on, as it should be, because of the waters we fish. Colors I may find worthless, another may chose under certain conditions.

But other than favorite lures, one might ask why they work as well as they do and, IMO, it relates to a fish's extraordinary senses of detection, it's simple nervous system that substitutes as a brain (in place of one that can think) and how those two factors account for a fish striking something totally unnatural.

The catfish caught yesterday bit the modified Strike King grub pictured beneath it as did a number of panfish of different species.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/catfish20with20Strike20King20Grub20in20mouth_zpsdu tdsnv9.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/catfish20with20Strike20King20Grub20in20mouth_zpsdu tdsnv9.jpg.html)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/strike%20king%20mod_zps8vm6p4tq.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/strike%20king%20mod_zps8vm6p4tq.jpg.html)

What was it thinking!?? or better yet, what was it reacting to?!! Could be the bright colors and color contrast; could also be the whip tail; could be the body profile and thickness; could be the combination of all three and including the right presentation.

Same for the bass caught on the hybrid in its mouth:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/bass_zps964492ca.png~original


(http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/bass_zps964492ca.png.html)http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/pink%20grubs_zpskqi3u3sj.jpg~original (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/lure%20inventory/Hybrids/pink%20grubs_zpskqi3u3sj.jpg.html)

The color and body modifications of 1 and 2, I feel, sets a fish up to strike something that irritates its senses - a stimulus: something that incites to action. Seeing as how the bright pink Spike It dye color worked for over 20 fish, I'd have to say it contributed. But a bright white of # 4 also worked. Equally important if not most important were the two quivering tail designs shown.

So when choosing lures, consider lure qualities a fish reacts to and pair the lure to what fish do react to.

shipahoy41
08-29-2015, 05:55 AM
Quote by Spoonminnow........"I tried the above three lure types and admit that they all produced well. The water temp was 80, green with algae with weeds continuing to die all over the lake. The best action was in 8-12' using a 1/16 oz. jig head and varying the slow retrieve using the rod tip or reel handle. The Strike King lure worked least well (though it did catch a 1.5 lb catfish in the same water crappie, perch and sunfish swam.) The MinnR worked very well, but especially in a certain color:;;;;;;super bright florescent pink body/ bright chartreuse prong tail. (Both colors obtained using Spike-It.) But then again the thin-tail grub in bright white did as well as did the clear plastic thin-tail containing chartreuse and black flakes. The question that comes to mind: was color or color brightness important?
The lure specific variables are there for anyone to assess were or weren't important - color, brightness, tail action, body shape. But what was most important IMO was the presentation that was mutually complimentary to some of those lure variables and that is what made neutral fish bite. Of the over 50 fish caught (including the catfish) no one can say all those fish were feeding or active in open water not near any weeds. The same goes for Sunday on a different lake with monster slabs and yellow perch in shallow and deep open water using the same three lure designs accounting for over 50 fish, including a 4lb bass on a 4' deep flat....The search for the truth (or something close to it) continues.... "

Well, IMHO, if you cannot convince them with brilliance then dazzle them with El Toro poo poo.




QUOTE=Special K;3035847]It's great to experiment and take notice of what works and how well it works during the various seasons and changing seasonal conditions. ...... and take such copious notice of such details and retain it all as your cumulative findings and/or outcome(s) from which you derive and explain your relative positions, tactical approaches and hypotheses. Interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.[/QUOTE]

Wayne, I believe Spoonminnow is saying he has CONFIDENCE in the lure, size, action, presentation and movement of particular lures to attract the fish and then induce them or trigger them to biting the lure. CONFIDENCE is the MOST IMPORTANT tool in your tackle box. If you do not believe in a lure you will never buy it or having bought it, the lure will stay in the bottom of your tackle box. The lure (size, colors, shape, scent etc.) will attract the fish. The action of the lure, or the presentation action that you impart to the lure, will trigger the bite.

INTIMIDATOR
08-29-2015, 01:25 PM
Spoon
Most lakes are totally different, from forage, to cover, water quality and color, etc....I have been lucky to live in SC and FL and fish many of the Great Southern Lakes...they were all different.
No one lure or color will work in all lakes, each has it's own distinct differences and patterns AND WATER COLOR.
Water color decides what colors fish can see or not see, and this will influence reaction or feeding bites.

My home lake in Ohio has a specific pattern according to temps and water quality.
I have pictures of what fish will bite on, at that specific time and pattern...sometimes it is "match the hatch" specific, and sometimes it is the color that they can see in a specific water coloration.
As you stated, each pattern may require a certain color and presentation...on the other hand, I am one who only uses 3 different kinds of large swimbaits, large CURLY TAIL grubs, and Large Craws.
ALSO like you, the plastics that I prefer are the softest and have the most action than any other....but I also fish for crappie like I do Bass and Walleye....all the same principles apply, but patterns and temps have minor differences.
Right now, our lake is heavily stained and dark with algae....it is a deep reservoir and the only thing they are hitting are glow colors, that are bounced slowly off the bottom, or with a super slow stop and start retrieve...nothing else...because they can see it. I am using glow swimmers and glow grubs on various jigs and jig heads.
Jig head color combos or syles don't matter...I have used beetle spins, RR horse heads, plain, etc...if you put on a natural color, you will be skunked....add something that glows, and you can catch hundreds.

I also fish a lake and a pit with 2 different types of clear water....different natural colored swimbaits, etc, work in these lakes...they will not touch bright colors at all.
If you understand the lake, and it's water color, know temps and patterns, and understand cover and structure, it helps you to understand why fish hit certain things and makes you color choices easier.

INTIMIDATOR
08-29-2015, 01:56 PM
Spoon
I've had so many people telling me that "their" specific lures and live bait were the only way to catch crappie....so I show them that Crappie can be caught on paper, clear plastic bags, and trash....with or without a crappie niblet....if you know the basics about Crappie and their environment.

Spoonminnow
08-29-2015, 06:49 PM
The lure (size, colors, shape, scent etc.) will attract the fish. The action of the lure, or the presentation action that you impart to the lure, will trigger the bite. Is this what you are referring to as
Toro poo poo? Because it's exactly the intention of the post plus:
1. lure characteristics matter more than color and at times matter as much as color (color in certain amounts or brightness) at other times but only because of a visual quality that stimulates activity
2. presentation is as important as the lure chosen and requires considerations such as speed, variations in speed, depth, jigging or swimming, etc. that stimulates activity

note:"that stimulates activity" where none may exist.

Granted, a piece of aluminum foil may get a fish to bite, but how often? What lure control is possible with a piece of aluminum foil? What does any fish that bites a lure think it represents? Who cares!!! The fish was provoked - case closed!

Confidence in a lure is based not on just looking at it in the package, but actually catching fish day after day, season after season and though I believe that there are hundreds of lure designs fish can be caught on, far less will work for large numbers of fish when conditions require a certain presentation and the lure action it complements.I would not presume to recommend any lure to anyone but instead as a habit, note that what works more often must have attributes / characteristics that you believe attract attention and get bit more often - especially on the second cast/ to the same fish! Lures that are ignored on the second cast - I change to ones that get attacked on even the third cast and get hooked. Why does a curly tail work or any other tail action? I have my theory and it has nothing to do with what a fish think the action represents.

Today was a tough day - not the usual 40 plus fish per angler. But many nice size crappie, perch and sunfish were caught in open water and off one point on only a few lures and colors. Was color important? Maybe. Was lure action and presentation? Most definitely! and that ain't no "Toro poo poo!" (BTW my partner was using different lures with different presentations and colors and caught far fewer fish in the same areas I caught fish. One of the best anglers I know had a hard time catching fish on lures I gave him that I made the day before - lures he has total confidence in.)

If one wishes to make color choice more complicated than it need be, by all means use the color(s) that you have confidence will catch fish. But Please, I say Please, try going against the grain and simplify color choice to just one - say white or pearl or chartreuse. If confidence is not forthcoming after catching a number of fish along side an another angler that is 'matching the hatch', than stay with what color you have confidence in of the lure in a design and presentation that matters more.

In case some haven't noticed, the lures shown in fish's mouths are examples of lure designs that have caught six different fish species year after year, some more often in most years and rarely not gotten bitten where fish were found. And that, again, is key for any lure to work - location, location, location. No toro poo poo in that statement!

Back to the statement:
Wayne, I believe Spoonminnow is saying he has CONFIDENCE in the lure, size, action, presentation and movement of particular lures to attract the fish and then induce them or trigger them to biting the lure. Fish caught speak louder than words and build confidence over time by the sheer numbers of fish caught over many outings as compared to other lures that don't produce as consistently.

Cane Pole
08-30-2015, 08:07 PM
Good luck matters!!

Spoonminnow
08-31-2015, 08:05 AM
Good luck matters!!

To some degree... but...

huntinslabs
08-31-2015, 08:46 AM
Spoonminnow, your missing out on some income. You could get rich selling cliff notes to your threads.:biggrin

INTIMIDATOR
08-31-2015, 01:43 PM
Good luck matters!!

I don't believe in luck...I prefer to believe that using your intelligence, experiences, and knowledge, allows you to make good choices, and puts you in a position for your success.;)

Spoonminnow
09-01-2015, 04:21 AM
I don't believe in luck...I prefer to believe that using your intelligence, experiences, and knowledge, allows you to make good choices, and puts you in a position for your success.;)

You got that right!

Spoonminnow
09-01-2015, 05:55 AM
I don't believe in luck...I prefer to believe that using your intelligence, experiences, and knowledge, allows you to make good choices, and puts you in a position for your success.;)

You got that right!

Went out yesterday and modified a Strike King crappie grub. The fatter body got a few hits, but once I cut the body's belly to make the lure more streamline, fish jumped all over it. The tail had already been modified : the original tail was shorter and had a small ball at the tip; it was replaced by the fusion of a spinnerbait trailer tail to the body allowing for a much greater finesse or whip action on a very slow retrieve in 9-13' with 79 degree water temp.. (see picture in the above post)

90 degrees and still caught over 38 fish! Knowing what to modify on a bait (as posted) can make all the difference in a lure's ability to catch fish.

Modification works as well as knowing a lure's limitations!

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 10:33 AM
I don't believe in luck...I prefer to believe that using your intelligence, experiences, and knowledge, allows you to make good choices, and puts you in a position for your success.;)

I will keep believing in luck. No one ever says : " you sure are experienced".

I have managed to do pretty good in my life being "lucky". I am lucky to be here. So is my pal Billbob, G, Cray, et al.

INTIMIDATOR
09-01-2015, 11:50 AM
I will keep believing in luck. No one ever says : " you sure are experienced".

I have managed to do pretty good in my life being "lucky". I am lucky to be here. So is my pal Billbob, G, Cray, et al.

Here's some food for thought!
The Good Book doesn't mention Luck...just God's Blessings and Lessons!

George Patton said, "There is no such thing as luck, merely Opportunity meeting Preparedness"!

Thomas Jefferson said, "I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more of it I have!"

Waldo Emerson said , "Shallow men believe in Luck, Strong Men believe in Cause and Effect!"

More Quotes...."Luck Cheapens Hard Work!"

"I'd wish you the best of luck, but I believe luck is a concept created by the weak to explain their failures!"

And My Personal favorite....

"STAY LOW.....GO FAST
KILL FIRST....DIE LAST
ONE SHOT.....ONE KILL
NO LUCK.......ALL SKILL!"

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 12:45 PM
A lucky man needs no lectures.

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 12:55 PM
“I know he's a good general, but is he lucky?” - Napoleon Bonaparte.


"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it" -Thomas Jefferson

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 01:01 PM
There are lost of lucky people in the world. This is a lucky link.

Bottom line is, I didn't return to Apple to make a fortune. I've been very lucky in my life and already have one. When I was 25, my net worth was $100 million or so. I decided then that I wasn't going to let it ruin my life. There's no way you could ever spend it all, and I don't view wealth as something that validates my intelligence. (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/s/stevejobs416933.html?src=t_lucky)
Steve Jobs (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/steve_jobs.html)

INTIMIDATOR
09-01-2015, 01:17 PM
“I know he's a good general, but is he lucky?” - Napoleon Bonaparte.


"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it" -Thomas Jefferson





You mis-represented Jefferson's quote..he is stating that by "working hard" (doing/studying/learning/etc), you make you own luck...pretty much what I said!:)
Same with Jobs!
And you see where luck got the little insane madman!

Mark Twain has a good quote about this situation....
I'm done!

lowe175
09-01-2015, 01:59 PM
Not trying to take sides but Mr jobs hard work and intelligent's probably had a lot to do with that 100mill he made

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 02:11 PM
Job's ran out of luck.

I don't care whos side anyone takes. Nothing phases me because I am lucky.

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 02:12 PM
You mis-represented Jefferson's quote..he is stating that by "working hard" (doing/studying/learning/etc), you make you own luck...pretty much what I said!:)
Same with Jobs!
And you see where luck got the little insane madman!

Mark Twain has a good quote about this situation....
I'm done!

I did not misrepresent anything. I just copied and pasted.

Spoonminnow
09-01-2015, 02:58 PM
Sat. I'm going with a friend to a lake I've only fished twice and we will take notes how many of these lures worked:


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/lure%20inventory/PAN%20FISH%20LURES/IMG_0017_zpsntpzifza.jpg~original
(http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/lure%20inventory/PAN%20FISH%20LURES/IMG_0017_zpsntpzifza.jpg.html)
The above were either modified, hand poured and /or dyed. Should be interesting how many catch fish and of many different species.
We will be following Emerson's advice, ....men believe in Luck, Strong Men believe in Cause and Effect."

"G"
09-01-2015, 03:10 PM
If you guys want to get off topic and argue.....why not got to the WOT board. This thread was supposed to be about lure design.

Slab
09-01-2015, 03:41 PM
Please everyone, share more information and less attitude.

Else I will have to say something like this:

213292

Especially since there's a man hunt going on here a couple miles from my house at the IL/WI border.

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 03:54 PM
You lucky you got Clint on your side.

deathb4disco
09-01-2015, 04:25 PM
If you guys want to get off topic and argue.....why not got to the WOT board. This thread was supposed to be about lure design.

I'm only reading this thread for the arguing. :crazy:

Slab
09-01-2015, 05:16 PM
You lucky you got Clint on your side.

That's "Dirty Harry" to you, punk!

213296


Sorry about the punk comment! Just seemed right at the time. lol

"G"
09-01-2015, 05:33 PM
He meant to say gewber lol

Cane Pole
09-01-2015, 09:05 PM
I know it.:tongue

Billbob
09-02-2015, 05:49 PM
is this moose 1am. ????

Tundah
09-03-2015, 05:52 PM
While I appreciate your analytical approach to lure design, I have enough analysis on the job. I fish to unwind and there is no shortage of products on the shelf that get the job done, some of which contradict your initial statement about the specific tail designs. I no doubt agree with your assessment, but I believe it is based on the environmental conditions of the waters you fish and may not apply universally. I won't get into the luck debate, I'm just happy to be on the water with my family and friends, catch or no catch.

That said, I think your custom made plastics look GREAT!!:ThumbsUp

Spoonminnow
09-03-2015, 09:57 PM
Lure design is a hobby in of itself and something to pass the time on cold winter days. Satisfaction is in the form of the pleasant surprise when fish react to different colors and new lure actions. I for one could never settle for using only one or a few of the same type lure and because of that have experimented with hair, Mylar fiber, fur, feather and a few other materials just to see what works and when. More out of curiosity than trying to set a bunch or rules for lure use (no such thing - even matching), the activity actually points to proving that a few designs and colors will work for all waters, everywhere. If you or anyone else want to accept the challenge, I would send a few to try during the warm water months just to prove that, as I've already seen with other anglers in my club who have used my lures regardless of water or other environmental factors. Believing anything else is in my opinion a rejection of the evidence that has proven the theory with over 600 fish caught this year alone. I've never sold a lure in my life, so don't take the offer as a promo.

In the near future I will be fishing waters I've never fished on West Point Military Academy property and of the lures shown, can guarantee most will get hit by many species, not just crappie, as I've done on lakes close to home. Fish don't all eat the same things but they all eat many of the different lures I make as well as many others many of you have had success fishing.

Again, if the original post indicates anything, it's that fish react much of the time involuntarily to lure designs that are unrealistic abstractions of life that may or may not simulate anything that lives. What works for me will work for you if given the chance.

NIMROD
09-04-2015, 01:19 AM
I feel presentation is way more important than minor changes in design .:twocents I use tube baits and insert the jig heads inside for durability . A friend just asked me to try a hand poured bait with a long pointed tail on a painted head . Conclusion was it caught fish but costs more than a tube using unpainted heads , kept getting pulled out of place on hook and caught about the same . Confidence goes along way in what you catch fish on and if your change'n baits then that's time you could be catching fish ! :popcorn

NIMROD
09-04-2015, 01:31 AM
Sat. I'm going with a friend to a lake I've only fished twice and we will take notes how many of these lures worked:


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/senkosam/Fishing/lure%20inventory/PAN%20FISH%20LURES/IMG_0017_zpsntpzifza.jpg~original
(http://s76.photobucket.com/user/senkosam/media/Fishing/lure%20inventory/PAN%20FISH%20LURES/IMG_0017_zpsntpzifza.jpg.html)
The above were either modified, hand poured and /or dyed. Should be interesting how many catch fish and of many different species.
We will be following Emerson's advice, ....men believe in Luck, Strong Men believe in Cause and Effect."

With right weight jig head and presentation they all will catch fish . :twocents I don't buy into the theory a critter with a brain smaller than a pea requires you carrying an arsonal of different baits . I had a old buddy that made spinner baits for Bass and even sold countless dozens to pros. Told me the paint was for the fishermen more than the fish . He did not paint his personal spinner bait heads but used plain lead ones (no paint ). Hard to beat a plain tube bait but what ever you fish helps to have confidence , even if it's a minnow .:biggrin

INTIMIDATOR
09-04-2015, 09:04 AM
With right weight jig head and presentation they all will catch fish . :twocents I don't buy into the theory a critter with a brain smaller than a pea requires you carrying an arsonal of different baits . I had a old buddy that made spinner baits for Bass and even sold countless dozens to pros. Told me the paint was for the fishermen more than the fish . He did not paint his personal spinner bait heads but used plain lead ones (no paint ). Hard to beat a plain tube bait but what ever you fish helps to have confidence , even if it's a minnow .:biggrin

Your old buddy figured out that in different types of water, colors fade quickly into shades of gray, in as little as a foot of water...his attractor for fish, was the thumping spinner and flash.
Some colors are needed in dirty water, to attract the fish's attention if you aren't using a blade, spinner, paddle tail, etc
As I said before, what will work in your water will be different that what will work in mine or at Spoon's.
Right now, My home lake is around 2500 acres, deep, and FERTILE....and algae colored, VERY DARK WATER...right now the best colors are GLOW, or bright Fluorescents. In early Spring, when the water is clear, you need to use Minnow or natural baitfish/craw colors, same just before Winter. During the Spawn, bright colors attract more fish, after the spawn, it is natural again until the zooplankton and algae turns the water dark.

Those baits that Spoon uses or a tube bait would have little benefit in my lake except in cold water...our lake has a HUGE natural population of Gizzard shad....EVERYTHING keys in on shad from after the spawn until the water reaches 39 degrees...then after winter, the Crappie will take small baitfish, minnows, and insects, until the water warms enough for them to hunt Shad. We have found 6 inch shad in the bellies of 12+ inch Crappie....to fish in our lake, shad are just like Herring or Menhaden, the are soft rayed, oily, stinky, and all protein and fat...the perfect food.
Fish in our lake, supplement shad with the huge population of freshwater lobster...3 inch craw baits, and 2.8 to 4 inch swimbaits rule this lake.

Spoonminnow
09-04-2015, 09:00 PM
I don't buy into the theory a critter with a brain smaller than a pea requires you carrying an arsonal of different baits .

...Agree completely. The picture just demonstrates that of all those shown, most will work and only a few need be taken along on any given day - even if only in one color.

I carry more than a few as my preference changes from week to week and then decide, 'let's see if this will also work...' They usually do... - no in fact, they always work as long as I find cooperative fish. Who doesn't have more lures than they'll ever need in a life time? We don't need all of them, but like a change once in a while just to see if some work better.

Been using a lot of florescent chartreuse lately!

river scum
09-07-2015, 09:02 AM
I agree with most. I really dont think fish posses the ability to reason. most fishermen give them waaaaaaaaaaaayyyy to much credit. put something in front of them, wiggle it rite and they will bite.

Billbob
09-07-2015, 11:28 AM
so true

Cane Pole
09-07-2015, 11:42 AM
I made up sum jigs with leftover spinner bait rubber and heat shrink. Theys work. Simple, and requires no skill to assemble. Need a pitur?

INTIMIDATOR
09-07-2015, 12:39 PM
I agree with most. I really dont think fish posses the ability to reason. most fishermen give them waaaaaaaaaaaayyyy to much credit. put something in front of them, wiggle it rite and they will bite.

Why do you have to wiggle it "rite", to get them to bite....that would assume they are intelligently looking for something out of the ordinary....or are you're saying, you just wiggle it til you get lucky!;)

Slab
09-07-2015, 05:37 PM
Why do you have to wiggle it "rite", to get them to bite....that would assume they are intelligently looking for something out of the ordinary....or are you're saying, you just wiggle it til you get lucky!;)

I've ice fished most of my life, and I love watching the fish on an underwater camera. And yes, sometimes you just have to wiggle it right to get the bite. It's so cool to watch Crappie and Bluegill swim past your jig, and a lot of wiggle gets them curious and looking, then, just the right wiggle will get them to bite. It's amazing. But that's ice fishing.

Cane Pole
09-07-2015, 08:05 PM
I stuck my head under water and saw the same thing happen. Amazing.

Cane Pole
09-07-2015, 08:12 PM
Try this rig out. Made in America by me from scraps. I'm lucky. Big Jig rig tipped with minnow.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z157/Tlewis38344/PT107%20%20Boat/th_PT107B.mp4 (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z157/Tlewis38344/PT107%20%20Boat/PT107B.mp4)

Slab
09-07-2015, 08:23 PM
Try this rig out. Made in America by me from scraps. I'm lucky. Big Jig rig tipped with minnow.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z157/Tlewis38344/PT107%20%20Boat/th_PT107B.mp4 (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z157/Tlewis38344/PT107%20%20Boat/PT107B.mp4)

Dang, that is cool. Big kids, big toys.

"G"
09-07-2015, 08:31 PM
Thats fantastic Tom

Spoonminnow
09-07-2015, 09:30 PM
I really dont think fish posses the ability to reason. most fishermen give them waaaaaaaaaaaayyyy to much credit. put something in front of them, wiggle it rite and they will bite.

Again agree! Fish species react or not (like with Tom's remote angler set up). The lure doesn't even have to wiggle to catch fish as long as it has whatever makes fish bite. There is probably an infinite number of designs that fish can't pass up, though at times the only bait that will work must be alive.


I made up sum jigs with leftover spinner bait rubber and heat shrink. Theys work. Simple, and requires no skill to assemble. Need a pitur?
Got a picture?

Cane Pole
09-08-2015, 08:00 AM
Picture for the doubters. Taken this morning at 0800 hours.

Cane Pole
09-08-2015, 08:16 AM
Hey, never underestimate an old mans word or abilities. We are the greatest. Old men rule!

Billbob
09-08-2015, 08:29 AM
:hesaid:hesaid

lowe175
09-08-2015, 10:10 AM
That's a good idea cane pole. Looks good. Them would be great for shooting docks.

Spoonminnow
09-08-2015, 11:58 AM
Picture for the doubters. Taken this morning at 0800 hours.

Now that's something I have just got to try!!!!!:cheers2 I'm a sucker for new lure making ideas, especially using unused tackle that's been sitting around for decades in my basement. Thanks Tom.