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Benton B
01-11-2015, 08:37 AM
The crappie Pros use them to supercharge their bait and keep tournament fish alive and healthy all day in July/Aug summer tournaments and claim they would not go back to any aerated livewells. I googled "compare fishing oxygen systems" to see what the difference is in these systems and found that oxygen systems are very different. some great, some bad and some junk that are advertised well and catch a lot of fishermen probably.

I found this comparison: Compare fishing oxygen systems.Oxygen systems,Oxygennators | The Oxygen Edge â„¢ (http://oxyedge-chum.com/compare-oxygen-systems/)

Oxygen Systems Are Not Created Equally

There are may types of livewell oxygen systems – more bait or more fish in the livewell always require more oxygen, the dose of oxygen must be adjustable.

DockShootinJack
01-11-2015, 08:56 AM
The units I read about used high pressure bottles of oxygen and a regulator system much like home oxygen systems for those with trouble breathing. That's the first oxygen generator for live wells I have read about. I am curious how well it actually works

warbird
01-11-2015, 07:24 PM
i would like to know more on this also

chucktx
01-11-2015, 08:36 PM
I hope I don't get banned for this, but TBBU is putting together a oxygen system to install in boats. it will be tested by tpwd. if I can answer your questions you may pm me........
chuck

warbird
01-11-2015, 10:11 PM
i found this Keep Fish alive with KeepAlive Aerators, Bait Tanks, Livewells, Bait Pumps and Pure Oxygen Systems.. Aireadores y Tanques para Carnada .. Beluchting Systemen.. のエアレーターと生餌水&# (http://www.keepalive.net/index.html)

Bronson
01-11-2015, 11:09 PM
I read the article and it implies there are little to no benefits for using an Oxygenator. My son and I both put them in our boats because our fish were struggling in bass tournaments that summer. We saw a tremendous difference the first time we tried it. Fish in the livewell were more active than when we caught them.

There may be something out there that is better and if it is, I would like to know about it.

Benton B
01-12-2015, 06:24 AM
I read the article and it implies there are little to no benefits for using an Oxygenator. My son and I both put them in our boats because our fish were struggling in bass tournaments that summer. We saw a tremendous difference the first time we tried it. Fish in the livewell were more active than when we caught them.

There may be something out there that is better and if it is, I would like to know about it.

Is the “article” you speak of the TP&WD Inland Fisheries published research and testing about the Oxygenator TM.

You both were struggling with summer bass tournaments, so, are you still struggling with summer tournaments since you both use Oxygenators now? Regardless of the published scientific research, if it works for you and your boy, why do anything different. For some reason Texas Parks & Wildlife does not use Oxygenators to transport any live fish, they use compressed welding oxygen and LOX.

For another expert opinion, contact the ShareLunker Program Director @ Athins, TX. They use oxygen extensively to transport 1 bass hundreds of miles across Texas, they are real bass transport experts and will tell you exactly how they ensure minimal safe oxygenation to transport 1 bass:

Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center
5550 FM 2495
Athens, TX 75752
General Phone number (903) 676-BASS 2277

Talk to Juan Martinez, Director, Sharelunker Program, ph (903) 670-2285, cell (903) 681-0550, pager (888)784-0600…. He will call you back on TP&WD dime too,
Here’s more technical info about Oxygenators, you will not find this kind of information in infomercials, advertisements and bass Pro testimonials.

OXYGENATOR™ – OXYGEN GENERATOR – ELECTROLYSIS TYPE

Aqua Innovations Oxygenator™, O2 Marine Technologies, distributed by T-H Marine is an electrolysis device primarily sold and used in freshwater livewells and bait tanks. This small D/C battery operated electrical oxygen system requires (2) AA or 12 volt batteries, some units require daily maintenance after each use but new units are advertised maintenance free.

SCIENTIFIC FACTS: “The Oxygenator-How well does it work?” “How Effective is It?” Tested by Texas Parks and Wildlife Inland Fisheries Department.

TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers AquaInnovations Oxygenator 2-14-2012 The Oxygenator, how effective is it? (http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it)
When fish and live bait are densely crowded into livewells and bait tanks and excited during capture, handling, transport and captivity; it absolutely is essential to provide dissolved oxygen (DO) faster than it is consumed by all the fish/bait in the livewell.

All of these TP&WD test were done with NO fish in the livewell water consuming oxygen. Add 1 fish and the dissolved oxygen level in the livewell water plummets drastically. Add 15-20 lbs. of fish and the oxygenator simply fails to supply a safe amount of pure oxygen to maintain minimal safe live transport DO saturation resulting in high mortality and morbidity – THE DEAD FISH PENALITY.

FACT: Although the Oxygenator does deliver 100% pure oxygen as advertised, it simply does not deliver enough pure oxygen continuously when fish are added to the livewell.

CAUTION: The gas space between a closed livewell lid and the water surface can become enriched with 3 different gases; oxygen, hydrogen, (an explosive gas like acetylene and propane) and pure 100% chlorine gas (an explosive gas) if the electrolyzed livewell water contains any salt or livewell products that contain salt. Incorporate any potential ignition source (electric wires, any live electricity) inside the livewell… EXPLOSION HAZARD / FIRE HAZARD.
Electrolysis breaks down fresh water molecules into pure hydrogen gas (H), pure oxygen gas (O2) plus deadly hydroxyl ions. If the livewell water contains any salt or livewell chemicals that contain salt, chlorine gas is always produced. Chlorine gas bubbles are visualized around the emitter as small greenish-yellow color gas bubbles (seen with back lighting). Hydrogen and oxygen bubbles are colorless.

In freshwater livewells, two thirds (2/3) of the gas bubbles produced at the emitter is pure hydrogen gas (an explosive gas) and only 1/3 of the bubbles you see are pure oxygen. Although the generator may not produce enough oxygen for all the fish or bait in the livewell, the total stocking density; it is designed, advertised and does produce [some] pure 100% oxygen by electrolysis of water. That is the sales point.

Oxygenator™ has no moving parts, makes no noise while older emitters require maintenance with special equipment after each use. Everything dies in the livewell if the oxygen live support system fails to produce or deliver enough oxygen. Summer conditions and overstocked livewells may exceed the Oxygenator™ capabilities to provide minimum safe DO saturation levels while the unit is working perfectly as advertised.

Water electrolysis produces some pure oxygen and twice as much pure hydrogen; 1:2 ratio respectively. The small volume of pure oxygen it does generate is neither regulated nor controlled by the fisherman. The small volume of oxygen generated is strictly limited, regulated and controlled by a thermometer that measures livewell water temperature.

The actual DO saturation produced with the Oxygenator™ has nothing to do with the DO saturation required to meet and sustain the minimal safe livewell oxygenation for 8-10 hours of intensive transport in overstocked summer livewell conditions.

Reduce disappointments and eliminate any unreal expectations, ask a boat dealer and Oxygenator™ salesman before the purchase – Will the Oxygenator™ provide and ensure minimal safe livewell oxygenation in the summer, keep my live bait and all my tournament fish alive all day?

Livewell oxygen systems must produce, maintain and sustain minimal continuous dissolved oxygen saturations (100% – 175% DO saturation) in a bass boat livewell, tournament weigh-in holding tank, release boat transport tanks containing a heavy limit, many limits of tournament bass (15-30 lbs fish or 400 lbs of live fish) in July/August tournaments all day long.

ELECTRICAL CURRENT may cause physiological and psychological stress impact of transporting live bait and tournament gamefish in water that’s actively being exposed to sustained low electrical current (electrolysis) in water unknown, out of sight and out of mind.

NEGATIVE AFFECTS OF ELECTROLYSIS are well know by fishermen…how electrolysis breaks down metal and electrical components on boats, motors and boat trailers. Why zinc anodes are absolutely necessary to counteract the negative effects of electrolysis.

The hallmark selling point is: “The Oxygenator ™ makes 100% pure oxygen,” Period. But, sellers will never mention if it makes enough oxygen to sustain an overcrowded livewell full of fish or live bait all day in the summer.
Technically the Oxygenator™ does qualify as a livewell oxygen system. The Oxygenator™ costs as much as a livewell water pump or small air compressor, bubble stone and air tube.

If the generator fails to produce and or sustain the minimal safe Dissolved Oxygen Saturation all day for all the catch, your gamefish and bait may die while the generator is making 100% oxygen, operating perfectly as advertised. Like when your mechanical aerator or livewell water pump is working perfectly, humming away while the tournament fish or bait are suffocating and dying as you watch in your summer livewell.

Know the facts and limitations about the Oxygenator™. Expect very limited pure oxygen production and low dissolved oxygen (DO) saturations in livewells full of gamefish and live bait every summer because the oxygen output is controlled and cycled on and off strictly by livewell water temperature. When the unit is new and functioning correctly in late fall, winter, early spring weather, the small volume of 100% oxygen may satisfy the biological oxygen demand for a small fish or a few live baits when environmental water temperature is within 40 F – 65 F.

Failure to generate enough DO is a seasonal problem like aeration, exhibited every summer when the surface water temperature reaches 75 F – 90 F. Like all mechanical aeration and water pumps, you cannot ensure minimal safe livewell DO saturation with air or the Oxygenator™ in heavily stocked livewells. Water pumps only pump water and air pumps only pump air… air and water is not oxygen regardless of how mush air and water you pump in the summer.

The water temperature sensor (the brain of the electrolyzer is a thermometer) cycles the unit on and off intermittently, the amount of oxygen that’s generated is strictly controlled by livewell water temperature not by the oxygen needs of livewells full of fish or live bait.

Add ice to cool the water and the unit cycles less generating less oxygen whether the well contains (1) three pounds of fish, (10} five pounds of fish or (15) fifteen pounds of live baitfish. Unlike standard professional fish transporters dissolved oxygen standards for transport DO protocols, livewell stocking densities are not a consideration for oxygen production and is of no concern with the Oxygenator™. That major design feature, a real plus to save electricity and battery power, can be absolutely deadly in the summer.

You can not increase the volume of 100% oxygen the unit produces and delivers which exposes an extremely limiting water quality factor like you’ve experienced with mechanical aeration: insufficient safe oxygenation.
DISSOLVED OXYGEN SATURATION RATE: Oxygenator™ literature claims to generate 80% DO saturation in 20 minutes in freshwater livewells, [no fish or bait in livewell water consuming oxygen, livewell stocking density -0-.].

This sounds great, right?

How do you think 80% DO Saturation in 20 minutes with an Oxygenator™ squares with any standard aerator or livewell water pump?

FACT: With no fish or bait in the livewell [livewell stocking density -0-.] and the standard mechanical aerators livewell pump running perfectly, 80% DO saturations or greater are easily reached within several minutes in summer livewell water. Even Mr. and Ms. Bubbles’ air pumps and bubblers can and will achieve 80% DO saturation under the same conditions in a few minutes in livewell water devoid of live bait and fish.

Oxygenator™ is popular with these freshwater boat manufacturers, OEM and by Bass Pro, Cabela’s and other major Big Box Fishing stores.

Triton Boats
Ranger Boats
G3 Boats
Nitro Boats
Champion Boats
Skeeter Boats
Tracker Boats
Stratos Boats
Bass Cat Boats
Crestliner Boats
Legend Boats
Crestliner Boats
Starcraft Marine
Procraft Boats
Weld Pro Aluminum Boats
Yar-Craft Boats
Phoenix Bass Boats

U2 LIVEWELL ADDITIVE

Oxygenator™ U2 instructions boldly state
DO NOT USE THIS DEVICE IN SALTWATER LIVEWELLS OR BAIT TANKS and DO NOT USE SALT OR ANY LIVEWELL CHEMICALS or LIVEWELL WATER CONDITIONERS THAT CONTAIN SALT.

Most livewell additives and chemicals contain salt, electrolytes that aid osmoregulation.
U2 and Salt Water U2 livewell additives are the only additives recommended for safe use with the Oxygenator™ by the manufacture. U2 literature stated the formulation contains essential electrolytes.

“Electrolyte solutions are normally formed when a physiological salt is dissolved into a solvent (water).”
What are the “essential electrolytes in livewell chemicals and formulations? Combinations of primary ions compose physiological electrolytes. Ions of Sodium (Na+), Chloride (Cl−), Potassium (K+), Calcium (Ca2+), magnesium Mg2+), Hydrogen Phosphate (HPO42−), and Hydrogen Carbonate (HCO3−). Electrolyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte)
Before you turn on an Oxygenator™ it is essential that you KNOW beyond any doubt whether the livewell chemical or additive you added to your livewell water contains any salt compounds.

If you are ever in doubt if any livewell additive contains salt, taste it. If you detect a salty taste, the formulation probably contains salt… Don’t turn-on your Oxygenator™.

CAUTION: Many livewell chemical manufacturers claim their fish saver livewell formulations and chemicals consist of “food grade” ingredients and may be used on food fish. Many of these products are clearly not FDA approved for use on food fish for human consumption and should never be used on tournament gamefish that are released alive after the tournament. Tournament catch and release gamefish are used for food fish for many fishermen, their wives and children.

Upon your request, any ethical livewell chemical manufacture should provide a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) or complete list of formulation ingredients upon your request. All the ingredients in the MSDS should be FDA approved for use on food fish for human consumption. It’s a public healthy issue and ethical statement regarding any concern for fellow fishermen and families that may catch and eat that fish you released yesterday after the tournament – The fish that you soaked 7-8 hours in the chemical bath in your livewell.

A FISH HEALTH FACT: Hydrogen gas combines with other elements (metabolic waste) in livewell water forming noxious and very toxic hydrogen sulfide that becomes corrosive when exposed to salt, (hydrogen chloride).
You ask, “There may be something out there that is better and if it is, I would like to know about it.”

Yes, if you are having problems, there is definitely safer more dependably O2 systems out there, but if you have absolute confidence in your Oxygenator in summer tournaments, stick with it, don’t change anything because livewell success can be fleeting. And the sting of 1 dead bass can be expensive and disappointing at weigh-in.

Know that a low-oxygen problem will never happen in your livewell anytime provided, you do not overcrowd/over stock your livewell. Most fishermen do not need any oxygen system for their catch because they do not catch a limit of fish large enough to overcrowd their livewell, spring, summer or fall tournaments.

If you are not happy with what you are using, yes, there are some very dependable O2 systems “out there” that are adjustable and work great in the worst summer tournament conditions without electricity whether you have 1 lb. of bass or 50 lbs. of bass in a summer livewell Any real life support system must be absolutely dependable and operate continuously for long periods of time – if what you are using (oxygen system, water pumps or mechanical aerators) is absolutely dependable in summer tournaments with 1 lb. of bass in the well or 30 lbs. of bass in the well?

chucktx
01-12-2015, 10:18 PM
we are working on the 02 system.....

Benton B
03-10-2015, 06:39 AM
I hope I don't get banned for this, but TBBU is putting together a oxygen system to install in boats. it will be tested by tpwd. if I can answer your questions you may pm me........
chuck

Hay Chucktx,
Haven’t seen a word from you since January, hope you weren’t banned after announcing 1/11/2015 on the board that TBBU was putting together an oxygen system to install in boats and that TPWD would be testing the system for you.

So how’s the oxygen system coming? Has TPWD tested it for you yet? When will you start selling it? How much will it cost? Where do you buy it? Show-off your rig, got any pics?

Don’t be shy Chuck, shout it out and tell us about it. Share the good news. Summer is coming soon and everyone knows that summer is always bad news for fish and bait and oxygen deprivation, summer kills in boat livewells.
We need it, we want it because some of us want to provide the very best fish care possible all day in the boat livewell. Actually, I want to get the fish to the scale “alive” so we don’t lose ½ lb. for dead fish and not have to worry about dying fish and dead batteries all day.

Your TBBU oxygen system must be cheap (priced right) for fishermen to buy it, like a Rule water pump or Mr. Bubbles air pump … But, it’s got to really be dependable and work GOOD at least for 1 summer.

Thanks Chuck

chucktx
03-10-2015, 08:01 PM
nope didn't get banned....just a couple of hickups to get rid of,,,,,,,,

Cmj
03-10-2015, 11:00 PM
Is this spam? Seems kind of "fishy" to me. :dono

johndeere5045
03-11-2015, 08:58 AM
We used them in the mid 90's. Home made of course. We used to tournament fish for crappie. Summer classics was where the fish needed help. We run a standard small welding oxygen tank with acetylene regulator ( turns down further than oxygen reg.) I made a ton of phone calls to fish people. The main piece they said to use was the stone in the tank. Make sure it gives off the smallest bubbles you can find. The smaller the bubbles the more it absorbs in the water.

rockmike
03-11-2015, 09:22 AM
I use a small aluminum tank that I refill with a whip from my shop bottles. Use a pediatric regulator to get the flow low enough. Works fine.

chucktx
03-11-2015, 08:36 PM
the stone is the key....

Benton B
03-12-2015, 03:38 AM
the stone is the key....

Actually the gas is the key. The dose of oxygen you deliver is the real key and that dose must be controllable... more fish you need to give them more oxygen, less fish, you need to give them less oxygen

Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers and Jason Driscoll TPWP, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 6/2011 Short Reports - Oxygenation of Livewells (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/inland/livewells.phtml)



— THE SCIENCE — never confuse oxygen with air or nitrogen, these 3 gases are all different

OXYGEN defined by Wikipedia: Oxygen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen)

AIR defined by Wikipedia: Atmosphere of Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth’s_atmosphere)

Nitrogen defined by Wikipedia: Nitrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen)

Electrical aerators and water pumps with air entrainment venturi’s and spray bars aerate livewell water air, not oxygen. Aeration is for off-gassing dissolved CO2 and ammonia gas.

Many fishing articles, fishermen and some biologists are often unclear and may be very misleading when it comes to talking and writing about these different gases. How often have you read in fishing magazines or heard fishermen, a biologist, fishing tournament official or salesman tell you that, “more aeration or bigger water pumps will ensure more oxygen and better livewell oxygenation,” or something similar. The glaring fact that will not go away is that pumping more water and more aeration does not and will never ensure minimal safe oxygenation in any livewell or bait tank that is overstocked at any time of the year, especially in the summer.

The reason that fish hatcheries always transport live fish with pure compressed oxygen or liquid oxygen (LOX) is to ensure that their transport water quality will never fall below 100% dissolved oxygen saturation, whether they are transporting one fish (like Texas Parks & Wildlife Department [bass] Lunker Program) or hauling 10,000 fish for a one hour overland trip or a three day trip hauling live fish from Florida to Texas.

It’s easy to confuse air with oxygen and nitrogen because these gases are all colorless, odorless and tasteless and they all make clear bubbles in livewell water.

Science and oxygen gas works better than air, HOPE, water pumps and aerators when it comes to keeping fish alive in summer livewells. The gas you chose to use is the limiting factor, the deliver system must be absolutely dependable else you will tither all day wishing and hoping.

Benton B
04-06-2015, 06:06 AM
Hay chucktx,

t’s been 3 months now since your announcement last January, the water is warming and the death and dying is coming soon when the water temp hits 75 F (that hot water is predictable every summer, so is the death and dying in livewells).

Pure oxygen gas is the magic that fixes this illusive summer livewell aggravation.

How’s your O2 system coming now? Has TP&WD tested it yet? What are the test results? Is selling it a viable option? Are you selling pediatric medical oxygen regulators with it? You know it’s got to be cheap or no one will buy it, cost no more than a good Rule water pump ($50 or so).

The cost of life in the livewell has limits, > $50 for an oxygen rig is over the limits for most fishermen, even a tournament bass fisherman that touts conservation of resources all the time won’t spring for that much money. After all, most boats come with livewells, bait pumps, pipes, valves, switches, timers, batteries to run this stuff and maybe a battery charger includes ($600).

Shout it out Chuck, cause summer’s coming and low oxygen livewell problems are predictable and always come with summer.

Thanks

Sovran
04-06-2015, 08:02 AM
I have read this thread but not associated links. There is one piece of the puzzle that I dont see has been accounted for. Temperature. Warm water doesn't hold as much DO and it is much more difficult to dissolve O2 into warm water Vs cold water. If the water is warm which livewells/baitboxes normally are, you can bubble as much O2 as you want to pay for and still not get an appreciative increase in the DO. I would be more tempted to buy from a manufacturer that has documented before and after DO levels at different listed water temps.

Hanr3
04-06-2015, 11:19 PM
I use Mino-Mizers. I believe they work better than oxygenators. In fact I have 4 dozen Crappie minnows in a 5 gallon bucket in the garage right now. Been there since Friday night. I change the water once per day, lost my first minnow today, 3 days later. The minnows are still lively and hard. Some oxygen systems will make the minnows soft and mushy. They don't last long on a hook.

Benton B
06-19-2015, 05:51 AM
Hay chucktx,

t’s been 3 months now since your announcement last January, the water is warming and the death and dying is coming soon when the water temp hits 75 F (that hot water is predictable every summer, so is the death and dying in livewells).

Pure oxygen gas is the magic that fixes this illusive summer livewell aggravation.

How’s your O2 system coming now? Has TP&WD tested it yet? What are the test results? Is selling it a viable option? Are you selling pediatric medical oxygen regulators with it? You know it’s got to be cheap or no one will buy it, cost no more than a good Rule water pump ($50 or so).

The cost of life in the livewell has limits, > $50 for an oxygen rig is over the limits for most fishermen, even a tournament bass fisherman that touts conservation of resources all the time won’t spring for that much money. After all, most boats come with livewells, bait pumps, pipes, valves, switches, timers, batteries to run this stuff and maybe a battery charger includes ($600).

Shout it out Chuck, cause summer’s coming and low oxygen livewell problems are predictable and always come with summer.

Thanks

It's summer now, the latter part of June 2015, 6 months down the line chuck and I'm seeing reports on the net about summer tournament fish kills... RE hot summer water, low livewell oxygen and dead tournament fish. Same deal and same dance time as last summer. Do you have your O2 rig yet or has that passed away in the last 6 months since you introduced it here chuck? Fishermen need it now and for the next 3 summer months.

RMGeorge
06-19-2015, 06:58 AM
It's summer now, the latter part of June 2015, 6 months down the line chuck and I'm seeing reports on the net about summer tournament fish kills... RE hot summer water, low livewell oxygen and dead tournament fish. Same deal and same dance time as last summer. Do you have your O2 rig yet or has that passed away in the last 6 months since you introduced it here chuck? Fishermen need it now and for the next 3 summer months.

SPAM?

chucktx
06-20-2015, 08:52 PM
no, not spam. taking longer than anticipated to get it together.