Honest discussion of LED lighting

[Jumping Cholla Jigs]

There's been numerous posts about LED lights so as a manufacturer I would like to ask anyone with questions to post them here for open discussion. I am NOT doing this to sell any product but only intend to clear up confusions.

We will all be using them sooner or later for all types of lighting. Flashlights to headlights, there becoming a large part of our lives. There is a lot of hype around over their use. The first thing you need to be aware of is the modern high output LED is nothing like the ones you have all seen on key chains. When you go looking for lights be aware of what you are buying. Very few products around today are using the newer technology LED's. I think Rango would agree that there is a vast difference in the amount of light given by the "high brightness" LED's of a typical key chain light and the "extreme output" of the state of the art LED's.

Ask whatever question you have about them. There is very little I can't answer as I spend tons of time researching and discussing the subject with company R&D guys.

[Ken Kinser]

well i don't know about led lights except in the small flash lights so i'll start the questions.
1. do they run on 12Volt batteries,ref. using them for night fishing like floating lights.
2. What is the price range
3. Do they come as Black Lights for nnight fishing
4. is there a website we can go to to see them
lookin for something better for night fishing thanks Ken

[LIL' Joe]

Not sure why you want to start a double post when I have one already going, but here is my contribution.

How many lumens or candle power does one of your high power LED lights put out? If you really want to get into a honest compairison, we have to have common ground to compare the lights with. I started looking at LEDs acouple days ago, and I would really like to know how they compare to other types of lighting.

Here some stuff I found.

A standard 100 watt incandescent light bulb emits approximately 1700 lumens.
Source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

Halogen 300,000 - 60,000 Candle Power or 950 - 1920 Lumens
Based on 50watt up to 100watt on this webpage.
Source = http://www.fishinglightsetc.com/RunTime.html

Compact fluorescent screw-in: 25W = 1520 lumens
Source = http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/art...en/halogen.htm

Floating headlight you can get from Basspro Shop.
200,000 candlepower
Source = http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catal...=SearchResults

Granted one thing the LED does have in it's corner is low power consumption.

Link to other LED thread. Mulitle web links in it = http://www.crappie.com/gr8vb3/showthread.php?t=27808

[crip47]

Thanks for returning my call a few weeks ago. I'm still very interested in them. I think it's just a matter of time before I try one. Hopefully I'll be able to see one in action. I will be reading all the Q&A and hope to get a better understanding about them. Thanks again

[Jumping Cholla Jigs]

How many lumens or candle power does one of your high power LED lights put out? If you really want to get into a honest compairison, we have to have common ground to compare the lights with. I started looking at LEDs acouple days ago, and I would really like to know how they compare to other types of lighting.

A standard 100 watt incandescent light bulb emits approximately 1700 lumens.
Source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

Halogen 300,000 - 60,000 Candle Power or 950 - 1920 Lumens
Based on 50watt up to 100watt on this webpage.
Source = http://www.fishinglightsetc.com/RunTime.html

Compact fluorescent screw-in: 25W = 1520 lumens
Source = http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/art...en/halogen.htm

Floating headlight you can get from Basspro Shop.
200,000 candlepower
Source = http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catal...=SearchResults

Ken... To discuss details please do so via PM or email. I really wish this post to offer factual information only regarding LED's and not pimp product.

Lil'Joe... Your correct about a 100 watt incandescent bulb putting out around 1700 lm's which equates to 17 lm's per watt. Good questions indeed. The current "state of the art" LED's are emitting 160 plus lm's per watt. They are now available to some manufacturer's in 20 watt versions, or 3200 lm's per LED. Additionaly the phosphor on incandescents lowers the maximum light output somewhat while attenuating it to a designed color. Given the above information as to watt/lumen output of modern LED's you can quickly see where the Halogen and CF's also fall short of the efficiency's from LED lighting.

Now, granted a 20 watt LED providing 3200 lumen is not something you can put into a fishing light and still have it affordable. The LED alone cost us in the neighborhood of $400.00. I have them for testing but their just not practicable for mass marketing do to costs.

The trend in LED fishing lights has been to take many "super bright" LED's that are rated at .07 watts each and group them together in an array. The problem with doing such a thing is once again the lumen vs watt issue. Most of these LED's produce about 2 lumen's. There are some that can be driven higher but lose efficiencies rapidly. It takes about 380 of them together to equal just one properly cooled extreme output LED drawing 1 amp. To do so will also draw 7.6 amps of power.

The goal is to lower power usage while providing max light output. An extreme output LED with controlled cooling can be driven at 5 watts without damage. Efficiency goes down per watt but 640 lumen's per led is achievable with well designed cooling.

[GRIZZ]

Seems to me that comparing LED's using lumens vs incandescent light bulb seems to be deceiving. If a standard 100 watt bulb emits 1700 lumens and Surefires brightest LED flashlight emits 100 lumens, it just doesn't make sense unless focusing the light makes that much of a difference. Surefires most powerful LED light is 100 lumens and its a tactical light that could practically blind you.

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...1171/sesent/00

I have a 4 D cell maglite with an Maglite luxeon 3 watt upgrade. It produces at least as much light at the normal bulb they rate at 65 lumens and its more blinding to look at than the regular bulb.

[LIL' Joe]

If a standard 100 watt bulb emits 1700 lumens and Surefires brightest LED flashlight emits 100 lumens, it just doesn't make sense unless focusing the light makes that much of a difference.

Read his post above. He answered that question. :D

[LIL' Joe]

How many Lumens does the Aurora light have and how much power does it use? (Per LED or per the whole light?) It states it is 3 times the amount of a fluorescent lamp. So does this thing have around 5100 lumens?

I do respect you for not trying to push your product in this thread, but we are going to have to talk about some products to compare them.

[Jumping Cholla Jigs]

How many Lumens does the Aurora light have and how much power does it use? (Per LED or per the whole light?) It states it is 3 times the amount of a fluorescent lamp. So does this thing have around 5100 lumens?

That light emits around 2200 lumen's at 700 milliamp's total but another factor comes into play when discussing differences between LED's and incandescents. Incandescents provide a wide spectrum light containing just about all colors. Water absorbs different colors at different rates. IR's being first, followed by red's, orange, yellow etc... Down toward the bottom of the color spectrum are the greens, blue's and finally UV A, B, and C. UV A is least absorbed by water yet makes a horrible attractant light for fish as they swim straight away from it. Blue's are very near the UV A wave length and does draw some fish but not near as many as green pulls in. We know a specific color of green works best as an all purpose attractant while also punching through the water well. It's the optimal color to use for that reason in a fishing light. Now consider again the white light or even a green fluorescent which is really a blue light (argon gas) with a green phosphor coating. Of the full color spectrum one of these puts out only those colors best transferred through water will ever be seen by a fish. That includes the UV A wavelength. So about 70% of the light from a white bulb is getting through the first 4 feet of clear water. The 1700 lumen's of a 100 watt lamp just went to 1190 at 4 feet in clear water. After another 5' down the number gets cut in half again as the oranges and yellows are absorbed. Green is still getting through the water as is blue and UV A which we know to bother fish. So the optimum color is green. The only reason to use white in reality is costs of the lamp itself. They are cheap since there's so darn many of them. Green LED's produce only green light. All of the power used is producing green light and heat. The efficiency of the LED determines what percentage of the power used forms light and what amount is wasted as heat. Same holds true for the 100 watt incandescent bulbs. They give off most of their energy in the form of heat.

With that information consider that your CF lamp mentioned above at 1520 lumen's is emitting around (depending on the phosphor) 532 lumen's at -10' in clear water. It will also be emitting blue and some UV A in that 532 lumen's. With a light such as the Aurora at -10' you will still see around 1900 lumen's of only green light. Water clarity and types of algae can cause a variety of changes to things but these are average figures.



I should also add that submerging a light under water is normally 25% more efficient than holding it above while shinning down. You can figure at least 25% of the light will reflect off of the surface. To demonstrate it yourself take a flashlight and shine it at the water while moving it toward the water. As soon as the lens goes under you will see a dramitc increase in the water lighting up.

[Jumping Cholla Jigs]

Seems to me that comparing LED's using lumens vs incandescent light bulb seems to be deceiving. If a standard 100 watt bulb emits 1700 lumens and Surefires brightest LED flashlight emits 100 lumens, it just doesn't make sense unless focusing the light makes that much of a difference. Surefires most powerful LED light is 100 lumens and its a tactical light that could practically blind you.

Grizz,
The trick is in the focusing of the beam. Surefire is also my choice in flashlights and I'm certain they are working out the heat issues as we speak in order to use the latest LED's in their products. The lumen measurement of the LED's they are using are rated from the factory supplying them and measured without any reflector or lens system. If you where to focus a 100 watt incandescent to the same spot as a Surefire you could not look at it either. Focus a 20 watt LED down and your eyes can get burned by looking at it. Same goes for a laser. Not a ton of light coming out of a laser but very focused.