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Thread: Forget the GPS. Teach me to....

  1. #1
    anchorpuller's Avatar
    anchorpuller is offline Crappie.com 2K Star General * Crappie.com Supporter
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    Default Forget the GPS. Teach me to....


    Read my fishfinder thangie! I've gotten pretty good at finding baitfish and seeing some stuff on it, but I've watched the threads on here and continue to try to identify what I'm seeing. Finding brushpiles would be so much easier if I knew how to set the thing and what I'm looking at on it.
    I, personally, would rather be able to find the brushpiles than to just get a few coordinates of ones that will go away eventually.

    ...............although....... If given the cookie, I'll eat it until I can make my own!
    "Be Ye Fishers of Men" You catch them- He will clean them

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    In my experience it's hard to find a brush pile on a fish depth finder unless you know what it looks like to know something unusual show up on the depthfinder. I'm like you I'd like to know more about how to find a brush pile. Once while I was on High Rock Lake I took my friend I bought my boat from and he told me about a couple of brush piles and we never really could find them on the depth finder. However we rode to his place on the lake(he lives a few miles from my house-just his vacation home on the lake) and we rode around the end of his pier and eventually found a Christmas tree he dropped in years ago. Sometime after Christmas if everything works out I'm going to drop a tree in Jordan Lake and mark the spot on my GPS and hopefully later on I'll be able to find the tree on the depth finder.

    Hope this helps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchorpuller
    Read my fishfinder thangie! I've gotten pretty good at finding baitfish and seeing some stuff on it, but I've watched the threads on here and continue to try to identify what I'm seeing. Finding brushpiles would be so much easier if I knew how to set the thing and what I'm looking at on it.
    I, personally, would rather be able to find the brushpiles than to just get a few coordinates of ones that will go away eventually.

    ...............although....... If given the cookie, I'll eat it until I can make my own!
    I don't know what unit you have, but my LMS480 has good enough clarity with pretty much my default settings to see brush piles. If you have a fairly high pixel count the brush should show up from the bottom (which you can see I hope) up a pretty good ways with many lines and kind of a pile of junk that looks different that grass. The fish will many time be just a line and not an arc all the time. If you see bait fish look for lines and or arc's in or at the bottom of the ball of bait fish.

    Look for brush piles on the edge of creeks and drop offs any kind of depth change that will bring the crappie close enough to get pulled to the brush pile.

    Hop this helps a little,

    Skip

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  4. #4
    frank lawhead's Avatar
    frank lawhead is offline RIP Frank - Crystal is now posting on his behalf.
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    Thumbs up deph sounders

    I RUN 2 GARMINS ON MY BOAT--240 AND 250 ---I THINK THEY DRAW A GOOD PICTURE --STUMPS--DOWNED TIMBER --BRUSH PILES -- ETC.
    PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM GEEZER

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    Hi Anchorpuller,

    I agree with you...I have a gps...I am starting to figure it out...But, once I get to the desired waypoint...I look on the fish finder to figure out exactly where it is...But, not sure what I am looking for..So, it is hard to look for something you don't know what it looks like....The lake I fish has a lot of aquatic vegetation...So, it is sort of confusing,...

    I sent email to eagle fish finders....I have a eagle fish mark 320....I asked them what area the fish finder covers with my transducer in the back...They replied back really soon...But, pretty much it is all over my head the response that they gave me...I want learn more about how to use my fish finder and read it better...Plus, learn how to use the gps better..But, seems like not much material on how to help you...


    I have been doing research on the internet...Trying to find material on how to read fish finder better...Like to determine what is what on the screen....Haven't found anything yet..

    I will try to post the reply eagle gave me to on here later..I am not sure exactly how to copy and paste here..

    Jeremy
    Thanks
    Bye
    Last edited by jcd; 10-19-2006 at 07:59 PM.

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    Events like crappie camp are perfect for learning things like this. I hope to help with sonar units and gps units this next week. Read all you want but sometimes it's just better to get the hands on experience. Can't make it to crappie camp, come when you can and it would be my pleasure to share what I know.
    Quit Wish'in and Let's Go Fish'in
    Darryl Morris

    FAMILY FISHING TRIPS GUIDE SERVICE
    501-844-5418 --- [email protected]

  7. #7
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    Hi Darryl,

    I want to make it down to the crappie camp this month...But, I am not going to be able to make due to work....I would be willing just to come down and learn how to read gps and how to use fish finder...Not to concerned on the fishing part...Just would want to learn those two things..

    Jeremy
    Bye

  8. #8
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    Hi,

    Here is what eagle responded with..



    Date: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:59 AM
    From: Eagle Info <[email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: RE: Eagle Other Comment or Question [281604:233918]
    Size: 166 KB
    Attachments: Cone Angle_v_Coverage Area.doc (158.1 KB)

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    The word "sonar" is an abbreviation for "SOund, NAvigation and Ranging." It was
    developed as a means of tracking enemy submarines during World War II. A sonar
    consists of a transmitter, transducer, receiver and display.

    The transducer has the capability of telling you the range from the transducer
    to the suspended object, however, there is no way to tell where in the cone
    angle that object is. The bottom is always directly below the transducer. As a
    fish comes into the cone angle, there is no way to tell what side he is coming
    into the cone angle. But, you can tell if he is directly below the transducer as
    that will provide the strongest signal. When the range of the arch peaks, it is
    a think black line, with probably a bit of white on the top, then the fish is
    directly below the transducer.

    In the simplest terms, an electrical impulse from a transmitter is converted
    into a sound wave by the transducer and sent into the water. When this wave
    strikes an object, it rebounds. This echo strikes the transducer, which converts
    it back into an electric signal, which is amplified by the receiver and sent to
    the display. Since the speed of sound in water is constant (approximately 4800
    feet per second), the time lapse between the transmitted signal and the received
    echo can be measured and the distance to the object determined. This process
    repeats itself many times per second.

    As mentioned earlier, the sonar unit sends and receives signals, then ?prints?
    the echo on the display. Since this happens many times per second, a continuous
    line is drawn across the display, showing the bottom signal. In addition, echoes
    returned from any object in the water between the surface and bottom are also
    displayed. By knowing the speed of sound through water (4800 feet per second)
    and the time it takes for the echo to be received, the unit can show the depth
    of the water and any fish in the water.

    The transducer concentrates the sound into a beam. When a pulse of sound is
    transmitted from the transducer, it covers a wider area the deeper it travels.
    If you were to plot this on a piece of graph paper, you would find that it
    creates a cone shaped pattern, hence the term "cone angle." The sound is
    strongest along the center line or axis of the cone and gradually diminishes as
    you move away from the center.

    In order to measure the transducer's cone angle, the power is first measured at
    the center or axis of the cone and then compared to the power as you move away
    from the center. When the power drops to half (or -3db[decibels] in electronic
    terms), the angle from that center axis is measured. The total angle from the
    -3db point on one side of the axis to the -3db point on the other side of the
    axis is called the cone angle.

    This half power point (-3db) is a standard for the electronics industry and most
    manufacturers measure cone angle in this way, but a few use the -10db point
    where the power is 1/10 of the center axis power. This gives a greater angle, as
    you are measuring a point further away from the center axis. Nothing is
    different in transducer performance; only the system of measurement has changed.
    For example, a transducer that has an 8 degree cone angle at -3db would have a
    16 degree cone angle at -10db.

    Lowrance offers transducers with a variety of cone angles. Wide cone angles will
    show you more of the underwater world, at the expense of depth capability, since
    it spreads the transmitter's power out. Narrow cone angle transducers won't show
    you as much of what's around you, but will penetrate deeper than the wide cone.
    The narrow cone transducer concentrates the transmitter's power into a smaller
    area. A bottom signal on the sonar unit's display will be wider on a wide cone
    angle transducer than on a narrow one because you are seeing more of the bottom.
    The wide cone's area is much larger than the narrow cone.

    High frequency (192 - 200 kHz) transducers come in either a narrow or wide cone
    angle. The wide cone angle should be used for most freshwater applications and
    the narrow cone angle should be used for all saltwater applications. Low
    frequency (50 kHz) sonar transducers are typically in the 30 to 45 degree range.
    Although a transducer is most sensitive inside its specified cone angle, you can
    also see echoes outside this cone; they just aren't as strong. The effective
    cone angle is the area within the specified cone where you can see echoes on the
    display. If a fish is suspended inside the transducer's cone, but the
    sensitivity is not turned up high enough to see it, then you have a narrow
    effective cone angle. You can vary the effective cone angle of the transducer by
    varying the receiver's sensitivity. With low sensitivity settings, the effective
    cone angle is narrow, showing only targets immediately beneath the transducer
    and a shallow bottom. Turning the sensitivity control up increases the effective
    cone angle, letting you see targets farther out to the sides.

    Attached you will see another document we have explaining cone angle vs.
    coverage area.

    Please feel free to contact us if we may be of further assistance.




    Thank you for choosing Eagle Electronics.

    Eagle Customer Service
    12000 E. Skelly Dr.
    Tulsa, OK 74128

    Customer Service: 1-800-324-1354
    Eagle website: < http://www.eaglesonar.com/>

    LEI Extras: Parts & Accessories 1-800-324-0045
    online at < http://www.lei-extras.com/>
    <')))><

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: [email protected]
    > Received: 10/19/2006 8:43 AM
    > To: [email protected]
    > Subject: RE: Eagle Other Comment or Question
    >
    > Eagle Other Comment or Question> Hi,
    >
    > I own a fish mark 320 lcd/fish finder...I am fairly new to fish finders...I
    have the transducer on the back of my boat...Does the transducer pick up what is
    behind the boat?...Or does it shoot back towards the front of the boat?...Like
    what you see on the fish finder screen....I would appreciate any help you can
    give me..
    >
    > Jeremy
    > Thanks
    > Bye> > Name: Durbin, Jeremy> Home Phone: (618) 377-8091> Work Phone: > Email:
    [email protected]>
    >
    >

    Open Attachment Cone Angle_v_Coverage Area.doc
    Move to: [New Folder]
    Prev | Next




    ©1997-2005 Openwave Systems Inc. All rights reserved.

    Jeremy
    Thanks
    Bye

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    illinois
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    Default

    Hi,

    Here is what eagle responded with..



    Date: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:59 AM
    From: Eagle Info <[email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: RE: Eagle Other Comment or Question [281604:233918]
    Size: 166 KB
    Attachments: Cone Angle_v_Coverage Area.doc (158.1 KB)

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    The word "sonar" is an abbreviation for "SOund, NAvigation and Ranging." It was
    developed as a means of tracking enemy submarines during World War II. A sonar
    consists of a transmitter, transducer, receiver and display.

    The transducer has the capability of telling you the range from the transducer
    to the suspended object, however, there is no way to tell where in the cone
    angle that object is. The bottom is always directly below the transducer. As a
    fish comes into the cone angle, there is no way to tell what side he is coming
    into the cone angle. But, you can tell if he is directly below the transducer as
    that will provide the strongest signal. When the range of the arch peaks, it is
    a think black line, with probably a bit of white on the top, then the fish is
    directly below the transducer.

    In the simplest terms, an electrical impulse from a transmitter is converted
    into a sound wave by the transducer and sent into the water. When this wave
    strikes an object, it rebounds. This echo strikes the transducer, which converts
    it back into an electric signal, which is amplified by the receiver and sent to
    the display. Since the speed of sound in water is constant (approximately 4800
    feet per second), the time lapse between the transmitted signal and the received
    echo can be measured and the distance to the object determined. This process
    repeats itself many times per second.

    As mentioned earlier, the sonar unit sends and receives signals, then ?prints?
    the echo on the display. Since this happens many times per second, a continuous
    line is drawn across the display, showing the bottom signal. In addition, echoes
    returned from any object in the water between the surface and bottom are also
    displayed. By knowing the speed of sound through water (4800 feet per second)
    and the time it takes for the echo to be received, the unit can show the depth
    of the water and any fish in the water.

    The transducer concentrates the sound into a beam. When a pulse of sound is
    transmitted from the transducer, it covers a wider area the deeper it travels.
    If you were to plot this on a piece of graph paper, you would find that it
    creates a cone shaped pattern, hence the term "cone angle." The sound is
    strongest along the center line or axis of the cone and gradually diminishes as
    you move away from the center.

    In order to measure the transducer's cone angle, the power is first measured at
    the center or axis of the cone and then compared to the power as you move away
    from the center. When the power drops to half (or -3db[decibels] in electronic
    terms), the angle from that center axis is measured. The total angle from the
    -3db point on one side of the axis to the -3db point on the other side of the
    axis is called the cone angle.

    This half power point (-3db) is a standard for the electronics industry and most
    manufacturers measure cone angle in this way, but a few use the -10db point
    where the power is 1/10 of the center axis power. This gives a greater angle, as
    you are measuring a point further away from the center axis. Nothing is
    different in transducer performance; only the system of measurement has changed.
    For example, a transducer that has an 8 degree cone angle at -3db would have a
    16 degree cone angle at -10db.

    Lowrance offers transducers with a variety of cone angles. Wide cone angles will
    show you more of the underwater world, at the expense of depth capability, since
    it spreads the transmitter's power out. Narrow cone angle transducers won't show
    you as much of what's around you, but will penetrate deeper than the wide cone.
    The narrow cone transducer concentrates the transmitter's power into a smaller
    area. A bottom signal on the sonar unit's display will be wider on a wide cone
    angle transducer than on a narrow one because you are seeing more of the bottom.
    The wide cone's area is much larger than the narrow cone.

    High frequency (192 - 200 kHz) transducers come in either a narrow or wide cone
    angle. The wide cone angle should be used for most freshwater applications and
    the narrow cone angle should be used for all saltwater applications. Low
    frequency (50 kHz) sonar transducers are typically in the 30 to 45 degree range.
    Although a transducer is most sensitive inside its specified cone angle, you can
    also see echoes outside this cone; they just aren't as strong. The effective
    cone angle is the area within the specified cone where you can see echoes on the
    display. If a fish is suspended inside the transducer's cone, but the
    sensitivity is not turned up high enough to see it, then you have a narrow
    effective cone angle. You can vary the effective cone angle of the transducer by
    varying the receiver's sensitivity. With low sensitivity settings, the effective
    cone angle is narrow, showing only targets immediately beneath the transducer
    and a shallow bottom. Turning the sensitivity control up increases the effective
    cone angle, letting you see targets farther out to the sides.

    Attached you will see another document we have explaining cone angle vs.
    coverage area.

    Please feel free to contact us if we may be of further assistance.




    Thank you for choosing Eagle Electronics.

    Eagle Customer Service
    12000 E. Skelly Dr.
    Tulsa, OK 74128

    Customer Service: 1-800-324-1354
    Eagle website: < http://www.eaglesonar.com/>

    LEI Extras: Parts & Accessories 1-800-324-0045
    online at < http://www.lei-extras.com/>
    <')))><

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: [email protected]
    > Received: 10/19/2006 8:43 AM
    > To: [email protected]
    > Subject: RE: Eagle Other Comment or Question
    >
    > Eagle Other Comment or Question> Hi,
    >
    > I own a fish mark 320 lcd/fish finder...I am fairly new to fish finders...I
    have the transducer on the back of my boat...Does the transducer pick up what is
    behind the boat?...Or does it shoot back towards the front of the boat?...Like
    what you see on the fish finder screen....I would appreciate any help you can
    give me..
    >
    > Jeremy
    > Thanks
    > Bye> > Name: Durbin, Jeremy> Home Phone: (618) 377-8091> Work Phone: > Email:
    [email protected]>
    >
    >

    Open Attachment Cone Angle_v_Coverage Area.doc
    Move to: [New Folder]
    Prev | Next



    Hopefully someone can explain a little better..
    Jeremy
    Thanks
    Bye

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Topeka KS
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    since u know how to use a gps go out to a lake and find a totally flat area around 20' of water
    throw out a marker and mark the spot with your gps then drop some brush on it
    wait an hour or so to let the dirt and air bubbles settle then go over it several times until you know what it looks like from every direction
    this will give u a reference point for other piles
    good luck al
    Fear me all ye that dwell beneath the waves

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