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View Full Version : Hypothermia- how long will you live in cold water?



Hanr3
11-01-2012, 09:39 PM
TheChilling Truth About Cold Water (http://www.shipwrite.bc.ca/Chilling_truth.htm)


Survival Times in Cold Water Without Protective Clothing



Water Temperature

Loss of Dexterity

Exhaustion or

Expected Time of



Degrees C

Degrees F

with no protective clothing

Unconsciousness

Survival



0.3

32.5

Under 2 min.

Under 15 min.

Under 15 to 45 min.



0.3 to 4.5

32.5 - 40

Under 3 min.

15 to 30 min.

30 to 90 min.



4.5 to 10

40 - 50

Under 5 min.

30 to 60 min.

1 to 3 hrs.



10 to 15.5

50 - 60

10 to 15 min.

1 to 2 hrs.

1 to 6 hrs.



15.5 to 21

60 - 70

30 to 40 min.

2 to 7 hrs.

2 to 40 hrs.



21 to 26.5

70 - 80

1 to 2 hrs.

2 to 12 hrs.

3 hrs. to indefinite



Over 26.5

Over 80

2 to 12 hrs.

Indefinite

Indefinite

Hanr3
11-01-2012, 09:45 PM
If the exhaustion doesn't kill you first, the hypothermia will.

Did you know that most cases of hypothermia occur in the fall and spring when air temps are 50-70 degrees?
Most poeple dress for cold weather and underestimate the effects of mild weather, thus underdress in mild weather. Add in water or wind, and wind and water and things quickly turn nasty fast.

Be safe, we want you to post another day. :cheers2

Got any near misses, post up so the rest of us can learn from your experience.

Shellback
11-02-2012, 06:59 AM
I think many studies have shown it's not necessarily the amount of time spent in the water, but the initial shock when you go in that kills. The bodies natural response to the shock of cold water is to inhale. Once you suck that water into your lungs, it's pretty much curtains for you with no life jacket. I know NY, and now PA have laws that folks of any age on boats 16 feet or less, must where life jackets at all times between Nov and April I believe. With the life jacket on, you now have a chance to survive.

bkabina
11-02-2012, 07:08 AM
I know NY, and now PA have laws that folks of any age on boats 16 feet or less, must where life jackets at all times between Nov and April I believe. With the life jacket on, you now have a chance to survive.


Correct. From the first day of Nov. to the last day of Apr.

MeanV2
11-02-2012, 07:20 AM
Good Law!!

Dan



I think many studies have shown it's not necessarily the amount of time spent in the water, but the initial shock when you go in that kills. The bodies natural response to the shock of cold water is to inhale. Once you suck that water into your lungs, it's pretty much curtains for you with no life jacket. I know NY, and now PA have laws that folks of any age on boats 16 feet or less, must where life jackets at all times between Nov and April I believe. With the life jacket on, you now have a chance to survive.

short grub
11-02-2012, 05:50 PM
II don't like this law, first it's someone telling me what I have to do or what they think is good for me. I understand the dangers that come with boating in the cold months of the year, the people that push for these kinds of laws are either insurance companies or groups that think they are put on this earth to take care of and look out for our saftey.

I understand the we need some rules to keep people safe but some laws are just going to far as to safe gaurd me from myself.

just my thoughts

thank you

Shellback
11-02-2012, 06:27 PM
II don't like this law, first it's someone telling me what I have to do or what they think is good for me. I understand the dangers that come with boating in the cold months of the year, the people that push for these kinds of laws are either insurance companies or groups that think they are put on this earth to take care of and look out for our saftey.

I understand the we need some rules to keep people safe but some laws are just going to far as to safe gaurd me from myself.

just my thoughts

thank you

Well the laws probably also protect those who may have to take chances rescuing someone. It's nice to think that you are responsible for yourself, but I'm sure there's a lot of first responders that had to rescue those who thought they could take care of themselves during the past hurricane. With seatbelts being mandatory for many years now, I still see deaths in car accidents due to the folks being thrown from the car or becoming part of the windshield.

bobothewizard
11-02-2012, 06:47 PM
I know NY, and now PA have laws that folks of any age on boats 16 feet or less, must where life jackets at all times between Nov and April I believe. With the life jacket on, you now have a chance to survive.

Its actually folks of any age on boats less than 16 feet.

Quite a difference when you own a 16 foot boat :)

Edit: I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight so I went on the fish commision website and grabbed the new law, or a piece of it anyway.

"MANDATORY COLD WEATHER LIFE JACKET WEA
• Beginning November 1, 2012, boaters must wear a life jacket on

boats less than 16 feet in length or any canoe or kayak during the

cold weather months from November 1 through April 30. Recreational

boating fatalities that occur in Pennsylvania from November through

April are primarily due to the effects of cold water immersion. When

water temperatures are less than 70 degrees F, cold water shock is a

major factor in boating fatalities. Victims who wear a life jacket when

exposed to cold water have potentially life-saving advantages such as
"

eagle 1
11-02-2012, 08:10 PM
FIRST. I WOULD WEAR A VEST OF SOME TYPE IN COLD WEATHER REGUARDLESS OF BOAT SIZE . SECOND . I AGREE WITH SHORT GRUB . THE STATES/ FED GOVERMENT ALLOW TOBACCO PRODUCTS TO BE SOLD KNOWING THE HARMFUL EFFECTS ! HOW IS IT DIFFERENT ?:twocents

Shellback
11-03-2012, 07:16 AM
Think about the law this way. So you are out winter fishing and decide you don't need to wear a life jacket. Something happens, and you fall out of the boat, swallow some water, and down you go. A little later someone sees your boat circling with no one in it, or your family calls and says you haven't returned from your fishing trip. Ya think authorities or your family are going to say oh well, he's gone and go on with their lives? That ain't gonna happen. Rescue people will be out, divers will be searching for your body, all risking their lives. Heck, you're dead, no big deal for you, but it's a big deal for those who have to recover you body and bury you. Same deal with seat belts. Ya think first responders like picking up broken bodies because someone thought the law for seat belts was an intrusion on their liberties?

G.Gordon
11-03-2012, 08:25 AM
Planning can be a life saver.

We can argue about the "choice" to wear PFD's in the summer, but I see no argument for not wearing it once the water is 60 or below. Falling in can be dangerous any time of year, but plum deadly this time. What an aged body might have been able to accomplish in warm water gets reduced dramatically in chilled conditions.

A. Have a way to get back in the boat. Again, if it's a struggle in the summer when you should practice it will be near impossible once you take a bath in cold water in heavy clothing.
B. Have a dry bag of synthetic clothing to change into as well as at least two of those huge lawn size trash bags.

Trash bags: I gave a speech one weekend to our boyscout troop during our "survival weekend. It got down to 20 that night. Right after breakfast the other leader walks them around the clearing where I'm was sitting there in the morning sun with that trash bag over my head, face cut out, giving a lesson on vapor and heat control. I'd timed my time out there, frost still on the ground, by the time the talk was complete I'd been out there over an hour in nothing but my socks/boots and boxer briefs... with that trash bag catching all my vapors and released body heat. I was very warm and that bag alone could have saved my life.

short grub
11-03-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm not saying that there is no need to wear a life jacket when water temps drop below 70. all I'm saying is do we need it to be put into a law? or will good old commonsence work for some things instead of everthing being a law that is a fineable offence?

just my thoughts

Shellback
11-03-2012, 12:31 PM
I'm not saying that there is no need to wear a life jacket when water temps drop below 70. all I'm saying is do we need it to be put into a law? or will good old commonsence work for some things instead of everthing being a law that is a fineable offence?

just my thoughts

Well I certainly wouldn't want it to be a money maker. Hopefully those enforcing it would use warnings and an explanation why PFD's are important in cold water.

Bottom_Bouncer
11-03-2012, 04:17 PM
Hypothermia occurs much quicker to a human in water than air.

I wear my life jacket anytime I fire up the big motor and go faster than a troll (regardless of season). My cousin had a steering cable break on him and throw him out of the boat. Luckily he survived. I only support life jacket regulations for children. Adults can determine if they want to win a Darwin award on their own.

In case I fall in while fishing in the winter, I have a ladder to get back in the boat. If you don't and fall in get to the motor, stand on the skeg and trim it up. I also carry a change of clothes with me during the winter months and try to fish with someone when I can.

wademaster
11-03-2012, 08:12 PM
i understand an age limit requirement; but every "grown" and "responsible" adult should have the right to make their own decisions as far as their wellbeing is concerned (life jackets, seat belts, tobacco, alcohol) if you put some of the laws into perspective you'll find that their mostly geared toward a money making plan rather than a safety plan; i mean people know how to take care of themselves, if they don't wanna take the precautions then that's the individuals business; and first responders and cops and firefighters and all the other emergency professionals out there know what their getting into when they sign up in the first place

mervin
11-04-2012, 04:58 PM
Shellback, Couldn't have been said any better.

Crappieday
11-04-2012, 05:53 PM
The good old PA Fish Boat and harassment commission at it's best. Why just boats under 16' should be for all boats, how about any one that is even near the water should have to wear one, that would keep every one safe. Or how about no boating until July.
When I was fishing the SQ river I would always wear my pfd when running the boat and then take it off when I was fishing all year long. Use common sense I don't need any more gov crap telling me how to be safe. Just have every one stay home and we'll all be sooo safe then.

Sorry for the rant.....................



Its actually folks of any age on boats less than 16 feet.

Quite a difference when you own a 16 foot boat :)

Edit: I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight so I went on the fish commision website and grabbed the new law, or a piece of it anyway.

"MANDATORY COLD WEATHER LIFE JACKET WEA
• Beginning November 1, 2012, boaters must wear a life jacket on

boats less than 16 feet in length or any canoe or kayak during the

cold weather months from November 1 through April 30. Recreational

boating fatalities that occur in Pennsylvania from November through

April are primarily due to the effects of cold water immersion. When

water temperatures are less than 70 degrees F, cold water shock is a

major factor in boating fatalities. Victims who wear a life jacket when

exposed to cold water have potentially life-saving advantages such as
"

Hanr3
11-04-2012, 09:29 PM
I think many studies have shown it's not necessarily the amount of time spent in the water, but the initial shock when you go in that kills. The bodies natural response to the shock of cold water is to inhale. Once you suck that water into your lungs, it's pretty much curtains for you with no life jacket. I know NY, and now PA have laws that folks of any age on boats 16 feet or less, must where life jackets at all times between Nov and April I believe. With the life jacket on, you now have a chance to survive.

Incorrect, the cold has a direct effect on your ability to use your muscles. You can survive the initial shock just fine, the time lines indicate how long you have before your body stops responding, life jacket or not, in cold water your body stops functioning. There long enough and the only thing the life jacket does is help the resucers find the body faster. At 40 degrees you have 15-30 minutes before your body stops responding, after that you float until your either rescused or die. This is the reason I posted the information. Too many believe its the intial shock, its not.

As for the laws to protect me, its my life, who are you to tell me how to live or die? Not directed at any person in specific. Just a general statement and how I feel on the subject. But that isn't why I started this thread. I started it becuase too many don't know about the effects of hypotehermia and how little it actually takes. You can get hypothermic in 80 degree water too! Or in a light rain on a 70 degree day. Hypothermia is when the bodies core temp drops below 95 degrees. thats a measly 3 degree drop.

Shellback
11-05-2012, 06:37 AM
Incorrect, the cold has a direct effect on your ability to use your muscles. You can survive the initial shock just fine, the time lines indicate how long you have before your body stops responding, life jacket or not, in cold water your body stops functioning. There long enough and the only thing the life jacket does is help the resucers find the body faster. At 40 degrees you have 15-30 minutes before your body stops responding, after that you float until your either rescused or die. This is the reason I posted the information. Too many believe its the intial shock, its not.

As for the laws to protect me, its my life, who the hell are you to tell me how to live or die? Not directed at any person in specific. Just a general statement and how I feel on the subject. But that isn't why I started this thread. I started it becuase too many don't know about the effects of hypotehermia and how little it actually takes. You can get hypothermic in 80 degree water too! Or in a light rain on a 70 degree day. Hypothermia is when the bodies core temp drops below 95 degrees. thats a measly 3 degree drop.

If you or others who think this law is an intrusion on your rights as an individual, that's fine with me. My point really is I hate to see other folks risk their lives for someone who doesn't take responsibility for their own safety. You might want to brush up on this article is you feel initial shock isn't a leading cause of cold water drowning. PS Just google "cold water immersion and drowning". Lots of reading there for you.



http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/SiteCollectionImages/spacer.gif


The Shocking Reality





By Jeffrey Pollinger, Public Affairs, Coast Guard District 13
http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/safety/images/sophiapluck.jpg

Think you're a good swimmer? It may not matter if you suddenly and unexpectedly end up in the frigid coastal and inland waters of the Pacific Northwest. Every year, dozens of swimmers and boaters drown in lakes, rivers and coastal waters in the Pacific Northwest. But it may surprise you that many victims don't die as a result of poor swimming skills or the effects of hypothermia, but from the immediate effects of cold water immersion, or cold water shock.


Unlike hypothermia, the effects of cold water immersion can lead to death in just a few minutes and in some cases, instantly.


Sudden entry into the water can cause cardiac arrest, even for people in good health. The shock of the cold water can also cause an involuntary gasp reflex that can cause victims to inhale water and drown. After just a few minutes, the ability to swim or tread water is impaired as the victim loses muscular coordination. All of this can occur in water as warm as 69 degrees.


"Sudden cold-water immersion is a phenomenon that is becoming more recognized as a cause of death as compared to hypothermia," said Dan Shipman, recreational boating safety specialist with the Coast Guard's Thirteenth District office in Seattle.


True hypothermia usually doesn't normally set in until at least 30 minutes after being in the water, depending on body size and type, insulation of clothing and other factors. Even then, victims can survive for hours before losing consciousness and drowning.

Wind Knot
11-05-2012, 11:09 AM
If you or others who think this law is an intrusion on your rights as an individual, that's fine with me. My point really is I hate to see other folks risk their lives for someone who doesn't take responsibility for their own safety. You might want to brush up on this article is you feel initial shock isn't a leading cause of cold water drowning. PS Just google "cold water immersion and drowning". Lots of reading there for you.

A couple of points. I have literally thousands of documented boat operating hours under my belt and I wear a life jacket and kill switch while operating the big motor. I've been thrown out of three boats while under way and it's no joke. You can't swim when you're unconscious and there's a good chance of that happening if you're hit with a 1,500 lb. moving object. I don't need the law to know to tell me that this is safe, smart, and responsible. As far as cold water is concerned, a Coast Guard search and rescue person once told me that he's pulled countless people out of the water- dead and alive. He mentioned that he can count on one hand the number of dead folks he's pulled out who were also wearing a pfd. To that end, I'm gradually getting rid of my camo life jackets and replacing them with brightly colored ones- red, yellow, and orange. I want folks to find me if I'm in and camo vests in brown water isn't going to work so well.

However, as someone said above, I don't need the law to tell me how I should protect myself. As someone above said earlier, if I want to be a Darwin award candidate, so be it.

Next, you keep bringing up responders and I can appreciate the job that they do. Personally, I'd be just fine letting someone who is clearly dead for a while stay in the water if conditions are so bleak that the lives of search and rescue guys are in immediate danger. However, it's their job. If they don't want to risk their own lives a couple of times per year, they're welcome to find different employment. I hear too many of them speaking from both sides of their mouths when it comes to things like this. Callous, maybe? Public sector tax dollars at work? Definitely.

strmwalker
11-05-2012, 01:00 PM
i understand an age limit requirement; but every "grown" and "responsible" adult should have the right to make their own decisions as far as their wellbeing is concerned (life jackets, seat belts, tobacco, alcohol) if you put some of the laws into perspective you'll find that their mostly geared toward a money making plan rather than a safety plan; i mean people know how to take care of themselves, if they don't wanna take the precautions then that's the individuals business; and first responders and cops and firefighters and all the other emergency professionals out there know what their getting into when they sign up in the first place
well i agree with the every "grown and responsible"adult except most of the time they forget they have other people with them like kids and maybe someone who can't swim they go over board what happens to the other people in the boat that can't save a adult not wearing a PFD!!!as far as 1st responders,cops,firefighters and all emergency professionals,i for one thank GOD for their service!!!and never dought what they KNEW before signing up for their BRAVERY!!!!

wademaster
11-05-2012, 02:12 PM
well, i didn't say anything about anyone else; that's why i said "THEIR" own wellbeing; not kids and whatever else; everyone appreciates these emergency professionals; we all need them at some time or another; i know it has to be a major pain to deal with some folks just because they didn't follow the laws, rules, regs or whatever; but still, it's their JOB to do this; yea, it sucks at times but that's what the job requires, if you don't wanna do that type of thing then change careers; i mean if you didn't wanna go to war to defend our country, why would you enlist? this is the same idea

strmwalker
11-05-2012, 03:11 PM
i mean if you didn't wanna go to war to defend our country, why would you enlist? this is the same ideaDon't know what you mean????I did my time and loved every minute of it and would do again if i was young enough!!!how about you???????

wademaster
11-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Seems that this thread has gotten far from hypothermia. Haha good fishing to you guys. Everyone be safe on the water no matter what the temps.

strmwalker
11-05-2012, 03:36 PM
Seems that this thread has gotten far from hypothermia. Haha good fishing to you guys. Everyone be safe on the water no matter what the temps.X2!!!you to,:cheers2 be safe and fill the livewells!!!!!:ThumbsUp

wademaster
11-05-2012, 03:46 PM
Didn't wanna sound disrespectful there. I've lost friends in the war and my entire family has been devoted to law enforcement for longer than Ive been alive. I know what goes along with these careers. I was just implying that people that handle those jobs have to be prepared to take on any situation in order to do their job successfully and to be able to stick it out when times arent so pleasant.

strmwalker
11-05-2012, 03:52 PM
Didn't wanna sound disrespectful there. I've lost friends in the war and my entire family has been devoted to law enforcement for longer than Ive been alive. I know what goes along with these careers. I was just implying that people that handle those jobs have to be prepared to take on any situation in order to do their job successfully and to be able to stick it out when times arent so pleasant.:ThumbsUp

Hanr3
11-05-2012, 07:53 PM
I cannot find anything stating that reflex gasp is the leading cause of drowing. Everything points to hypothermia.
CDC - Water-Related Injuries Facts - Home and Recreational Safety - Injury Center (http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html)

Hypothermia Prevention: Survial in Cold Water | Minnesota Sea Grant (http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia)
Boating & Hypothermia - BoatSafe.com (http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hypothermia.htm)
Hypothermia: How long can someone survive in frigid water?: Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=airplane-1549-hudson-hypothermia)

Shellback
11-05-2012, 09:16 PM
The Truth About Cold Water | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News (http://gcaptain.com/cold_water/)
http://www.wms.org/news/Cold%20Water%20Immersion.pdf
Cold Water Shock Explained (http://delmarvakayak.home.comcast.net/~delmarvakayak/cold_water_shock.htm)
Cold shock response - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_shock_response)

NeonMoon
11-06-2012, 08:22 PM
I can tell you something I just learned. in 52* water, it takes exactly .5 seconds for the grapes to disappear, and 20 minutes in a 120* shower for them to re-appear.

Hanr3
11-06-2012, 09:28 PM
I can tell you something I just learned. in 52* water, it takes exactly .5 seconds for the grapes to disappear, and 20 minutes in a 120* shower for them to re-appear.

rotfl

Danielle Johnson
11-08-2012, 03:01 PM
coming from a medic- i thinks its a great law, i however see both sides, yes you are an adult and can make an informed decesion, (seatbealt or pfd) but by you chosing not too, you are putting others at risk. Such as the emergency responders. I have been on a fire department for 11 years this January and I will tell you, while every run is a learning expirence, its never fun fishing for dead bodies, no matter what the temp. of the water, or searching for missing body parts because, someone chose not to wear a seatbelt. And it goes back to the "lead by example thing" what/how do your children feel when you make them wear a pfd/seatbelt but you don't? the only thing your teaching them is when they grow up they will choose not to as well. Dont get me wrong i am horrible about wearing a pfd ( in the summer) (i avoid cold water on my personal time) and am a trained rescue swimmer! i of all people should know better, but i still think the law is a good idea.. and its probably like most laws .... not real well enforced.

ibfestus
11-08-2012, 07:28 PM
I really dislike seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, life jacket laws etc. I wear my kill switch and PFD anytime the outboard is running. I have never fallen into the lake when at the wheel but have on several other occasions including once when I was by my self and the water temp was in the 40's. I was 30 minutes or more from the ramp and hadn't seen another boat in hours.

It was scary, but thankfully the adrenalin kicked in and I managed to get on the lower unit and trimmed myself up to where I could get hold of the back pedestal (as somebody else recommended). Today, I couldn't do that. I'm too old and fat. Fat however in this case is good! I float like a cork and will never drown. I fell again in Oct. The water was still in the 50's and even though I had a partner to help I managed to get out of the water onto shore by myself.

That is the key! You must get out of the cold water and must do it very quickly or you are dead. Even if the water temp is 45 and the air temp is 25, get out of the water or you are dead! I carry water proof matches and a fire starter in my coat pocket. just my $.02

wademaster
11-09-2012, 10:35 AM
Wait a sec. Is this a thread discussing how long you can survive in cold water due to hypothermia or is this a discussion on what job you have and what laws we like and dislike? Seems to be so often that threads turn into something completely different than what was originally intended.

mervin
11-09-2012, 11:04 AM
I carry a coleman box with dry everything including fire starting materials, towels, insulated hunting bibs and jacket, gloves, hats. If someone falls overboard in 40 degree water in 30 degree weather, they have a very short time frame to live. I want to get them out of the water, dried off and into dry clothes ASAP and if necessary, on shore with a big fire.

Sad to say, but three weeks ago when I went into a store to get minnows, someone stole the box off the back of the boat. I only had it ratchet strapped on. Had to buy new stuff, lots of bucks. But if it was needed (for me or anyone fishing with or near me) and I didn't have it, I'd feel pretty bad for not having spent the money to replace if I had to watch a friend freeze to death. I had one friend slip off an ice covered dock in Minnesota on winter day. We barely got him back to the cabin before hypothermia set in.

The new box is locked AND locked TO the boat with a steel cable. It will at least stop the opportunistic "snatch and dash" thief.

MeanV2
11-09-2012, 11:17 AM
Nothing worse than a thief! :(

Dan





I carry a coleman box with dry everything including fire starting materials, towels, insulated hunting bibs and jacket, gloves, hats. If someone falls overboard in 40 degree water in 30 degree weather, they have a very short time frame to live. I want to get them out of the water, dried off and into dry clothes ASAP and if necessary, on shore with a big fire.

Sad to say, but three weeks ago when I went into a store to get minnows, someone stole the box off the back of the boat. I only had it ratchet strapped on. Had to buy new stuff, lots of bucks. But if it was needed (for me or anyone fishing with or near me) and I didn't have it, I'd feel pretty bad for not having spent the money to replace if I had to watch a friend freeze to death. I had one friend slip off an ice covered dock in Minnesota on winter day. We barely got him back to the cabin before hypothermia set in.

The new box is locked AND locked TO the boat with a steel cable. It will at least stop the opportunistic "snatch and dash" thief.

Wind Knot
11-09-2012, 11:24 AM
If someone falls overboard in 40 degree water in 30 degree weather, they have a very short time frame to live. I want to get them out of the water, dried off and into dry clothes ASAP and if necessary, on shore with a big fire.

If this were true, hunting flooded timber would be the most dangerous sport in the world and it wouldn't be nearly as funny when someone floats their hat.

MDCrappie
11-17-2012, 07:01 AM
I just pulled 2 out of 48 deg water this past week. 2 people in a canoe duck hunting. Only in water for about 5 min and the guy was shivering/shaking until well after the ambo got there. He was with a female and she did much better. Luckily they both had life jackets on when we got to them. You'd be surprised how heavy a 130lb female is when wearing soaking winter clothes. Luckily I was in 18'cc with 2 other guys.

Year before last I plucked a guy from 38 deg water.

mervin
11-17-2012, 07:50 AM
They were very lucky you were there....with a big boat....and two friends to help you get them aboard. And it's the law in Illinois that if you are in a canoe or kayak, you have to wear your PFD at all times.

Last night I went fishing along a very rocky river bank below a dam here in TN. Since I'm still recovering from a broken leg and not 100% yet, I wore my PFD just in case I slipped or took a tumble into the water. Better encumbered than to be dead.

Magnolia
11-17-2012, 08:05 AM
ahh, come on man,.........government intrusion is what it is........I only read of drownings in the state of Texas about once or twice every 2-3 years...........
as for me, I promised mama I would wear my life jacket all the time when Im fishing alone.........
its kinda hard to fall out of a toon anyway.....

Lowellhturner
11-19-2012, 02:56 AM
Former USN aviation survival equiptman (parachute rigger) was assigned briefly TAD to an Aviation Physiology Training Unit in San Diego area. in the building was a smaller pool that was used for water survival training and could be cooled to about 45 degrees F. Watched experienced senior military pilots (Capts and CDRs, an USAF Colenel, USMC Majors, ect ) do their dead level SERIOUS best to convinse us to just "pencil whip" their required every 3 yr "refresher" cold water test. There was a red phone that rang at the desk of the Commanding Officer of Fighter Wing 1; by HIS own order, he ONLY could excuse anyone, REGARDLESS of rank and you would IMMEDIATELY be RESCHEADUALLED for the following wk. If they failed to pass it, you had 2 more tries...basically, if you could not get out of your harness and into the life raft inside of 8 minutes, you weren`t going to...read of a USCG cutter near the Berring Strait that a Russian military MiG 23 "Flogger" radioed saying his plane was losing power and he was going to eject near the ship. Even being young, in excellent health with a cold water survival suit and actually getting into his rubber dingy and being brought aboard the USCG inside of 20 minutes with expert medical care, he died...extreme hypothermia and heart attack I believe. Wind chills were about 20F which is almost nice and balmy for there.

G.Gordon
11-21-2012, 08:53 AM
Good post Lowell. I think people are arguing the wrong pt. It's not how long you survive in cold water... as you mentioned, it is how long you can function in a way as to save your own life. You might live 30 min. or more in 35f water, but your ability to rescue self (get into a life boat or back in your fishing boat) will be limited to a few short minutes.

MDCrappie
11-21-2012, 10:19 AM
Good post Lowell. I think people are arguing the wrong pt. It's not how long you survive in cold water... as you mentioned, it is how long you can function in a way as to save your own life. You might live 30 min. or more in 35f water, but your ability to rescue self (get into a life boat or back in your fishing boat) will be limited to a few short minutes.

Exactly - and it appears (from the situation I had the other day) that your "physical condition" (with lack of cold water survival training) could actually hasten your demise. The guy "appeared" to be more "fit" and in better "physical" condition then the girl. From the way they were acting neither had any training, but the girl (who appeared to have a lower muscle %) didn't appear to be fading as fast as the guy who looked as though he worked out regularly.

Looks like Body Fat can be helpful in this situation.

Rees Guide
11-24-2012, 11:17 AM
Dont think I will own another boat without a ladder on it, riding the big motor up with the trim is another option.

Locator79
11-24-2012, 11:59 AM
I had a near miss, that I can remember to this day, I had someone watching over this day for sure. Many years ago, my son and myself, decided spur of the moment to take advantage of a day in Feb. that rose up to the late 40's. At the time I only had a small 14' jon with a trolling motor only, no a very stable boat. We went to a local 200 acre trolling motor only lake, and spend the day. Mid way through our trip the wind started howling, and were in and out of coves to protect ourselves from the wind. Once we decided we'd had enough, we had to cross the lake to get back to the ramp. While we were in the coves fishing, the wind was bad, but wasn't anything like the main lake wind that had to be gusting 35 mph to 40 mph with a steady 20mph hitting smack in the face. Anyway the battery gave out, and I eneded up having to paddle, and paddle, and paddle. Every time I would gain 20' the wind would gust and I'd lose 50'. We both had life jackets on, but in my infinate wisdom, I ripped mine off, and got on the bow on my knees to paddle with all my might. One wrong move and I'm head first in 38 deg. water in three layers, with coveralls on. I remeber falling in looking up and I was at lest 8' from the surface. Once I made it to the top, I could see my son drifting further away by the second. As I was trying to tread water, and talk him calm, everything got really heavy, and I could feel myself sinking and watching the fear in my sons face at the same time, I thought my life was over, by this time I could hardly keep my head up, and he a drifted 50 yards from me. I started to give up, but somehow found it inside to get to my son, and like in a instant, almost like I was magically placed at the side of the boat, and I had my hands on the side. I had no strength, to pull myself will all my clothes over the side, I held on until we were blown to shallow enough water where I could touch. Pulled the boat to shore, and layed on the earth thanking the powers that saved my life. I stripped down to my base layer, and we had to walk through a campground that was closed, about 2 miles back to the truck to get the trailer. I've never been so cold, that I felt like I was on fire, but litterally my left felt burned. I made it out OK, but it was a lesson learned, that taught me and my son both how fast things can happen, and the importance of a life jacket. He's 16 now and we still from time to time talk about it, and both know how we were spared. It can happen to anybody, at the time, I was very in shape, in my 20's, and had no chance at even treading water, long enough to breathe.

G.Gordon
11-25-2012, 08:07 PM
Wow, what a story. Glad you're here to tell it.

Rees Guide
11-26-2012, 02:54 PM
The Big Guy was looking out for you for sure, thanks for sharing and glad you are here to share your story.

Hanr3
11-26-2012, 11:55 PM
Good post Lowell. I think people are arguing the wrong pt. It's not how long you survive in cold water... as you mentioned, it is how long you can function in a way as to save your own life. You might live 30 min. or more in 35f water, but your ability to rescue self (get into a life boat or back in your fishing boat) will be limited to a few short minutes.

Exactly!

Lowellhturner
11-27-2012, 03:04 AM
Locator79, a close 1 for sure. Surprisingly, 2 of the more interesting points that learned at the "cool pool" was that body fat WILL help TEMPERARILY ward off hypothermia, BUT only for a couple of minutes at the most. Also that the risk of HEART ATTACK upon falling into extremely cold water DOES play into a large percentage of drownings; lets face it: you fall in, cold water shock reflex occurs, your body has a heart attack, unconcousness occurs; very likely that`s THAT, period. As far as getting out of the water soaking wet but still alive getting into a "space blanket" or a pair of heavy duty plastic yard and leaf bags is VERY GOOD protection; they are large enough to cover the entire torso and abdomin area. The "double bagging" with arm and head holes tight enough to be snug without cutting off circulation in the under bag and a head opening in the upper bag are just unbelieveably effective at retaining body heat. If absolute worst comes to worse, a victim can have someone else with as little on as necessary from behind hold them under this rig; it has saved far more persons than you cam imagine, ESPECIALLY if there simply isn`t going to be an IMMEDIATE rescue. I ALWAYS carry 2 with me ice fishing for EXACTLY this reason. VERY CHEAP "insurance"...

Lowellhturner
11-27-2012, 03:21 AM
Pardon the "double dip", but forgot the "space blanket"; this miniscule folded up piece of modern marvel is capable of allowing a tightly and CAREFULLY COVERED (no exposed skin showing) reasonably fit person to survive 32 degree weather for 24 hrs BUTT NAKED so long as they are not in direct contact with water, snow or ice; also remember being in direct wind chill conditions SIGNIFICANTLY LOWERS it`s heat retention ability. Do not misunderstand, you will still be EXTREMELY miserable and as uncomfortable as you will likely ever be in your life BUT your chances of survival go WAY upwards with this gem. Developed by NASA in the late `50s it has multiple potential uses. Used WITH the 2 HD lawn bags, they could save a life for extended periods of time. (Personally, I have the greatest admiration for the individuals who VOLUNTEERED to test this stuff; especially "in the real world" situations...)

Hanr3
01-23-2013, 09:58 PM
Man and his two sons die while hiking. Its a sad thing, and one of the reasons I started the thread, hopefully to educate others to prevent future deaths. It was 60 degrees out when they started the hike.

Caught in freezing rain, Illinois man, 2 sons die while hiking on remote trail in Missouri | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/14/caught-in-freezing-rain-illinois-man-2-sons-die-while-hiking-on-remote-trail-in/?intcmp=obnetwork)