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crappiefarmer
11-04-2004, 08:35 PM
First, I want everyone to know that I am an american farmer and damn proud of it. I take great pride in knowing that I grow food to feed our great nation. My dad and I farm around 1200 acres. We grow cotton, soybeans and peanuts. I know for the average person, farming is a boring subject but there seems to be a political firestorm on the rise when it comes to subsidies. This is going to be another big issue in the next couple of years as congress will begin to write the next farm bill and decide how much tax payer money will go to help keep farmers afloat. Some people don't understand why they are having to pay so much in taxes to farmers so I will give my opinions and why I think that we will have to continue to subsidise farmers.

First of all, don't let anyone tell you we are the most efficient farmers in the world. We once were but now that a cotton picker cost over 300,000 dollars when they were once a tenth of that cost you might begin to see why we are having so much trouble staying afloat. In 1993 a bag of cotton seed cost about 40$ a bag. Now a bag of cotton will run about 300$ a bag. Farming is the only business in this country that can't pass expense increases on to the consumers. The price of cotton right now is around 45 cent a pound. Break even price is 55 to 60 cent a pound depending on your expenses and yield.

Why are prices so low? Mainly because of foreign competition created by poorly created free trade deals that don't do much for american farmers. Our government has helped to create free trade deals that don't keep workers wages in mind. We are competing with farmers in China that only get paid 50 cents a day. If they were paid what we need to be paid to make it then we would be able to beat them because of our technology. Many of these countries want our farm subsidies halted because they blame them for running prices so low when in fact if they had the expenses we have they would go out of business. Subsidies are the equalizer when it comes to labor cost. Our country had 75 million farmers before the depression. Now there are only 2 and a half million farmers left that do the work of those 75 million. That is all crops that are grown divided amongst us. China has 54 million cotton farmers that still pick cotton by hand and only get paid 50 cents a day.

You can begin to see why these subsidies are important. If we go out of business then this country will fall. There is not enough food grown around the world to cover our needs if we go out of business. I don't like knowing that I have to recieve half of my income from the govenment to survive. I feel like I'm on welfare sometimes but I don't sit around on the front porch all day like some welfare recipiants do. I would like to know your opinions on this subject and will answer any questions that you have. Thanks. CF

Shellback
11-04-2004, 08:55 PM
A farmer, a lawyer and a doctor were sitting around a little diner one morning and got to discussing what they would do if they won the lottery. The doctor was an avid golfer and he said he'd buy himself a golf course and just play golf the rest of his life. The lawyer, he loved to sail, so he said he would buy a luxury sailboat and sail around the world. The farmer, he scratched his chin giving it some thought, and finally said, " I think I'll just keep farming till I go broke". I imagine that says it all about today's family farms. My area is mostly dairy farms here in N.E. PA. It's 7 days a week, 365 days a year, and it's about a tough as it can get for these fellows up here. I understand where you are coming from and the help you need. I hope things turn out favorably for you.

fatboy
11-06-2004, 10:45 AM
This posts strikes me in the heart. I was born and raised on a dairy farm. I started my working career at the age of four, not eighteen, but four. I started off bottle feeding the baby calves and bringing the cows in each night for milking. Then as i grew older, my jobs included feeding calves, milking in the a.m. and p.m. , cutting, tetting, raking and baling hay, hauling hay. Then as i got even older, my jobs were to milk, sew hay, feed calves, de-horn, (farmers know what that is), give shots, move cattle, plow, disc, sub-soil, spread manure with the spreader, keep the holding pen clean, help my neighbors with above things . I had a choice to make in 1990. I could carry on the family business of milking or using my degree to make thrice the money. I chose the money. A new four lane highway cut our farm exactly in half and in 1995 my father retired which meant the dairy was over. The bright spot is , he has been been retired nearly ten years, he has money in the bank, i have a good job. But if i had a dollar for everytime i wished i could de-horn, or rake or bale or feed baby calves again, i wouldn't be rich, but i would have a chunk of change. I will never ever forget the values instilled in me and the beliefs i have. I may be a "fatboy", but i have always worked hard and always will. I appreciate any farmers out there to continue to be controlled by the government. Yes the government. Seen all those GOT MILK? ads?
The dairy farmers pay for those. That expense comes right out of their checks before they ever see them. I guess it is supposed to help advertise, but they had no say so in it. Growing up, there was four dairy farms in my direct area. Now, none. Sign of the times. God Bless Farmer, my heart is with you.

Moose1am
11-10-2004, 09:23 PM
When I went to Purdue it was with the intent of being a veternarian. I studied Pre Veternary Medicine for two straight years. My best friend in college is a Veternarian now and several of my fraternity brothers are veternarians. One is here in my home town and lives not too far from me. Another Fraternity brother sells John Deer Equipment and owns the local dealership. Another brother lives not too far from here in Owensboro, KY and he is a dairy farmer. We use to come home together during school breaks in his souped up Car. Another Fraternity Brother of mine owns a sheep farm in Griffin IN and his younger real life brother and I used to play Ice Hockey together and get together afterwards and drink beer at the local pup with the other older hockey players. We called ourselfs the "HUFF and PUFF" gang. LOL We were not teenagers anymore.

I belonged to the Alpha Gamma Rho Fraternity house and lived with 70 other Fraternity Brothers at Purdue Delta Chapter for two years.

I didn't live on a farm but my grandfather had a farm and raised cattle, pigs and grew some crops. He also ran an Radio and TV repair shop. I can remember going to his farm and gathering eggs from the chicken coop for breakfast on weekends. This old rooster got me one day as I was walking into the pen. He was sitting there on the handle of this wheel barrow and when I got close to him he flew at me feet first. I ducked and he missed with those claws. I was about to ring his neck. Another time I was playing out in the yard by the bee hives and the bees were swarming. One got me right in the stomach and man that hurt. I can still remember the time the two calfs got out of the barn or fenced in area and we had to chase them though the garden. I remember picking peanuts out of the garden.

My dad was a organic gardner big time.

Most of my fraternity brothers lived on big farms and I was surprised by the amount of work and money that went into being a farmer.

Our troops would not have anything to eat if not for our farmers back home.

Earl Butts who was once the Secetary of Agriculture lived in the same Fraternity House that I lived in when I was at Delta Chapter.

Guess you might say that I am a friend of farmers too.




First, I want everyone to know that I am an american farmer and damn proud of it. I take great pride in knowing that I grow food to feed our great nation. My dad and I farm around 1200 acres. We grow cotton, soybeans and peanuts. I know for the average person, farming is a boring subject but there seems to be a political firestorm on the rise when it comes to subsidies. This is going to be another big issue in the next couple of years as congress will begin to write the next farm bill and decide how much tax payer money will go to help keep farmers afloat. Some people don't understand why they are having to pay so much in taxes to farmers so I will give my opinions and why I think that we will have to continue to subsidise farmers.

First of all, don't let anyone tell you we are the most efficient farmers in the world. We once were but now that a cotton picker cost over 300,000 dollars when they were once a tenth of that cost you might begin to see why we are having so much trouble staying afloat. In 1993 a bag of cotton seed cost about 40$ a bag. Now a bag of cotton will run about 300$ a bag. Farming is the only business in this country that can't pass expense increases on to the consumers. The price of cotton right now is around 45 cent a pound. Break even price is 55 to 60 cent a pound depending on your expenses and yield.

Why are prices so low? Mainly because of foreign competition created by poorly created free trade deals that don't do much for american farmers. Our government has helped to create free trade deals that don't keep workers wages in mind. We are competing with farmers in China that only get paid 50 cents a day. If they were paid what we need to be paid to make it then we would be able to beat them because of our technology. Many of these countries want our farm subsidies halted because they blame them for running prices so low when in fact if they had the expenses we have they would go out of business. Subsidies are the equalizer when it comes to labor cost. Our country had 75 million farmers before the depression. Now there are only 2 and a half million farmers left that do the work of those 75 million. That is all crops that are grown divided amongst us. China has 54 million cotton farmers that still pick cotton by hand and only get paid 50 cents a day.

You can begin to see why these subsidies are important. If we go out of business then this country will fall. There is not enough food grown around the world to cover our needs if we go out of business. I don't like knowing that I have to recieve half of my income from the govenment to survive. I feel like I'm on welfare sometimes but I don't sit around on the front porch all day like some welfare recipiants do. I would like to know your opinions on this subject and will answer any questions that you have. Thanks. CF

fatboy
11-11-2004, 09:51 AM
A dairy or beef farmers favorite type of phone call: Ring, Ring, Hello? Your cows are out!!!! GREAT.

papasage
11-11-2004, 12:59 PM
my probablem with subsidising is after all that money you see farmers going to bankrupsey court all the time . driving a higher price car than the lawyer .that is if his wife aint gon shopping and need the linklon town car .then he is in the 4+4 with leather interior not over 4 or 5 years old with over size tires . all the boys over 16 has one too. i amnot saying all farmers are like that . i know some that have ben sucseful and his neighbor went under . the went under neighbor is the one with the linklon and 4+4`s. this is in all buisnes. i have seen others buisnesses go under and some in the same buisness progress . the bottom line is knowing how to run a buisness . if you can`t make it then git out . there is some that can make it .dont live beyond your means. i do work for farmers and other buisness men . they never make any money but when tax time comes they are grumbling about how much tax they have to pay .go figure . i have never had any subsisies in my buisness and ben in it 40 years . but my vann is a 1977 and over 200;000miles on it . never owned a new car or truck . never went bankrupsey.enough of that . git my old used 20 year old boat out and go fishing in the river . the farmer ownes the ponds and my tax money stocked it for free . but it is his familey pond ..;;,,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Barnacle Bill
11-11-2004, 04:02 PM
This posts strikes me in the heart. I was born and raised on a dairy farm. I started my working career at the age of four, not eighteen, but four. I started off bottle feeding the baby calves and bringing the cows in each night for milking. Then as i grew older, my jobs included feeding calves, milking in the a.m. and p.m. , cutting, tetting, raking and baling hay, hauling hay. Then as i got even older, my jobs were to milk, sew hay, feed calves, de-horn, (farmers know what that is), give shots, move cattle, plow, disc, sub-soil, spread manure with the spreader, keep the holding pen clean, help my neighbors with above things . I had a choice to make in 1990. I could carry on the family business of milking or using my degree to make thrice the money. I chose the money. A new four lane highway cut our farm exactly in half and in 1995 my father retired which meant the dairy was over. The bright spot is , he has been been retired nearly ten years, he has money in the bank, i have a good job. But if i had a dollar for everytime i wished i could de-horn, or rake or bale or feed baby calves again, i wouldn't be rich, but i would have a chunk of change. I will never ever forget the values instilled in me and the beliefs i have. I may be a "fatboy", but i have always worked hard and always will. I appreciate any farmers out there to continue to be controlled by the government. Yes the government. Seen all those GOT MILK? ads?
The dairy farmers pay for those. That expense comes right out of their checks before they ever see them. I guess it is supposed to help advertise, but they had no say so in it. Growing up, there was four dairy farms in my direct area. Now, none. Sign of the times. God Bless Farmer, my heart is with you.

Well put Fatboy. I can relate to you. When someone gets up at 4am they are suppose to go fishing, not have to milk a bunch of darn cows. I do fondly remember tho when we got automatic milkers. Those were the greatest things since sliced bread! And then there was our 1st John Deere that had an electric starter. Whoo hoo!

cspen
11-12-2004, 10:38 AM
The farmers that I know don't drive Lincoln Town cars,brand new four wheel drives, and live off subsidies>They drive 20,000 dollar tractors and drag about $30,000 worth of equipment around a field to keep $30,000 worth of cattle from starving thru winter.Most of them work public jobs and farm because they don't want to loose the land that there family has spent there life paying for.If you see people[I won't call them farmers]in fancy cars and trucks they are the welfare recipients the gentleman in the first post felt he belonged to.The farmers that actually recieve subsidies and derive there living from mother earth deserve our gratitude and respect.I do not make my living from farming but we still manage a family cattle farm mainly to instill the values in my son that I was brought up with.Crappiefarmer you take what our gov. gives you and be proud that you are man enough to put your future in mother natures hands

fatboy
11-12-2004, 10:54 AM
Not naming names, but this is one of the few subjects that has pissed me off. How about a couple of you try it since it is so easy. Try having to be at "work" every morning and every night regardless of how you feel or what is going on. Got the flu? Tough, go milk. Broke your arm? Tough, go milk. Wanna get away for the weekend? Tough, go milk. Want a vacation? Tough go milk. Don't knock it til you try it and don't try to bring politics into this because it doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. So, if you don't like what i say,i am hating that i am typing this, as our sorry vice-president recently said, "Go f*#k yourself".

fatboy
11-12-2004, 10:54 AM
Cohutta, raises hand, i have been bad, moderate me.

papasage
11-12-2004, 01:12 PM
this isent about how hard you work on the farm i did some of that myself . pick cotton by hand gather tobacco ride a peanut picker . you name it i have don it . yep milk a cow befor daylight and then eat brakfast and walk a mile to school . this isent about working it is about the goverment handing out to a farmer that knowes he cant sell for what he has in his crop . i raised my familey working 16 hour dayes not farming but working in my own buisness and the goverment didnt give me a dime . i learned to live on what i made . my kids didnt have deziner jeans except when the flipped hamburgers at a fast food after school . their car was a cheep fixerupper . they paid their own insurance . becouse i didnt have the goverment subsidising me . i have lived on a farm and have don work for farmers . so i amnot talking through my hat .
p s i am not being ugly about this i am just answering the question that was asked.[[[[[ [I would like to know your opinions on this subject and will answer any questions that you have. Thanks. CF]

Ranger375
11-12-2004, 01:41 PM
I am not a farmer but Iworked several years as mechanic for both John Deere and Case/IH deale4rships. I've seen several good farmers go bankrupt always trying to grow more and with all the newest equipment. Then I have also seen some of them down size and maybe not have the biggest or best equipment and return to operating in the plus column.

I'm not saying that this is the case with all farmers and I for one support the subsidies we give the true farmers. I do not approve of the "city farmers" who use a farm as a tax right off and get government crop support. I'd love nothing more than to have a farm that I could raise feed for my livestock and be able to provide some food to the world (corn & soybean in my area of IL.).

To the family farmer who is struggling to make ends meet I salute you and try to do my part to get government support where it is needed. In my mind there is to much welfare that folks that are capable of working are setting back doing nothing and getting paid to do it. If these people setting back drawing welfare were paid to help the farmer instead of a handout maybe a lot of money spent on welfare could go to the family farmer.

crappiefarmer
11-12-2004, 11:29 PM
Man, did I stir up a hornets nest here or what? Fatboy, and others, I appreciate all the nice things you said to stand up for us that are scratching by.

Papasage, first of all please don't take anything here that I say as me being angry with you. This is why I sent in the post. I appreciate your opinion. Now let me try to explain why you are seeing some of the things you see and tell you my situation and all of my neiboring farmers situations.

I drive a 1999 dodge ram pickup truck with almost 200,000 miles on it already. My dad drives a 1994 dodge ram with 230,000 miles on it. We are not like most people who drive to work, park their cars for the rest of the day and either go sit in an office or drive a company vehicle. Our trucks are our company vehicles. We use them for every day normal use of driving to work, getting lunch, picking up the kids (when we have time) but after we get to work, we have to still use our trucks to get seed , run parts, pull 20,000 pound peanut trailers (which really wear out a vehicle fast) and cotton trailers. It isn't hard to run 70 to 80 miles on a vehicle a day like this so you really wear out a truck fast like this. This is the main reason why you see farmers driving new pick up trucks on a regular basis. the year I got my new truck, my old truck(1988 dodge ram) was on its last leg with over 200,000 miles. We got 38,000 dollars that year off of Soybeans( including subsidies) and bought the truck straight out for 30,000 dollars virtually wiping out our soybean money. Why would we do such a thing? Because if we had a bad weather year the following year and couldn't make payments then I would lose the truck which is something that I really have to have. So you see just a small gamble we took that year.

I also have a boat. no it's not new. It's a 1986 Stratos bass boat. I can't afford a new boat. My dad has a big boat for going out in the ocean in. Your probably thinking big money right? It's a 1973 21' fiberform that he has done some work to to get it back in shape. He paid 6000 dollars for it in 1974. The same size boat now will run close to 50,000 dollars. We can't afford that either, not by a long shot.

I live in a 3 bedroom house. Its a decent house that I have busted my ass for. My dad lives in a nicer house and a little larger but he has busted his ass a lot longer than I have to have it.

I turned in 30,000 dollars worth of income to the infernal revenue service last year. Thats all I made. My dad just a bit more( he is the boss still). With a combined income of 65,000 dollars to 75,000 dollars, thats all we got from the farm before taxes. Don't forget we are paying for our subsidies too. If we had a bad hurricane and lost our crops we would be in debt over 500,000 dollars. Papasage, that is an every year cost expense risk we take. Thats not much money being brought home for the risk we are taking. There are a whole lot of people who said the hell with it a long time ago just for that reason. Thats 500,000 dollars we have to pay 28% taxes on so instead of paying in all that money to uncle Sam we buy a new pick up truck when we really need one and write it off of our taxes so we can get something for some of that money.

I said it before and I'll say it again. FARMING IS THE ONLY BUSINESS IN THIS COUNTRY THAT CAN'T PASS COST INCREASES ON TO CONSUMERS. We don't set our prices. The Chicago board of trade and the New York stock exchange set all farm comodity prices. We have no control over what the price will be.

Subsidies have paid half of our income since 1997 mainly because of bad trade deals. For my father and myself thats around 250,000 dollars. If we didn't have have subsidies we would only have around half of the money every year to cover cost of production so I don't care how good of a businessman you are there is no way in hell you could make it work. If we did away with subsidies and everyone was willing to pay FAIR MARKET PRICE for their products at the grocery store then you would pay almost twice what you are paying now. Could you handle $4.50 for a loaf of bread? Think of what would happen to our economy if it were hit by that jolt. Subsidies stabilize the cost of food and clothing for all of us.

Papasage, I will say this. Like in all forms of government aid there are ones who will milk the system for all it's worth. The farm bill was writen poorly in parts which allowed some savy farmers to find loopholes and really suck on the government. These may be some of the farmers you have seen. Also some very wealthy people like Scotty Pippens and Ted Turner collect conservation payments off of their ranches. This is wrong and this is the kind of thing that gives farm programs a bad name and these loopholes should be shut. You should only recieve farm payments if you are farming for a living. You will also hear farmers run down alot of welfare recipients because we know the difference between the ones who bust their asses and the ones who sit on the porch all day waiting for a check in the mail.

Please be carefull when you say if your not good at your business you should get out. It only took about 80 years to go from 75,000,000 farmers to 2,500,000 farmers. You are getting in dangerous territory when one day your down to only a handfull of people who know how to grow crops and have time to grow the food for the rest of the world. Thats a lot of control for a very few people. It's already started( Cargill, Aurther Daniels Midland, Bunge). These three companies handle pretty much all of the aggricultural products we produce each year. Thats a lot of power that those CEOs have.

In closing I will say this: I Hope I have changed some of your minds about farm subsidies. Again Papasage, I don't want to step on your toes and make you angry. That is not what I wanted and I hope that I have not come across that way. If I have I deeply apologize. Again, this is why I posted this. I see a political firestorm on the horrizon and I think a small firestorm was started here. I know we can work our differences out. We are Americans and thats one of the things we do best. Thanks for all the input and I hope the input continues. If there are any more questions or opinions please let them be known. Sorry to give my life story( or part of it anyway) but farming is my life and I can't describe it any other way. Thanks. Good Luck. CF

P.S. To those who are against Farmers, when you gripe about us, don't talk with your mouth full!

papasage
11-13-2004, 09:21 AM
crappie farmer there is no affence taken. i dont think the farmer dont work . as i said in another post i worked on the farm spent all my summers on my uncles farm worked as if it was my dads farm . the thing is all the buyouts and subsisied . not onley the farmers the big airlines and others that git help from the goverment . any way it is don there will be a few that dont understand why . yes there are some that struggle and some that dont . i know all the farmers in my aera and some struggle and some dont as the publick sees it . what gits me is that they say they [ NOT ALL]

papasage
11-13-2004, 09:44 AM
[[[[[[[[[[[[[sorry i hit something and sent the post befor it was finished ]]]]]]]]]]]]that they dint make any money when the crops are sold . but then when tax time comes along they grumbling and wonder where they are going to git the money to pay the tax that they owe . i run a buisness and `if you dont make any money you dont pay any taxes .
i know about the wrong doings about low interested loand and subsidied . had a man here that got a 4 % loan and put it in a bank and was drawing 7 %. this was a long time ago . he got cought . there are a lot of that going on . our goverment dont do anything when they catch some one .unless it is a poor man that cant send a lobiest to washington .
in the long run it boiles down to lobiesdt and politicks .the lobiest spreads the money in the places that will help his cause and the politishion sayes yes to the one that puts the right amount of money down .

hawkman
11-14-2004, 09:31 PM
This posts strikes me in the heart. I was born and raised on a dairy farm. I started my working career at the age of four, not eighteen, but four. I started off bottle feeding the baby calves and bringing the cows in each night for milking. Then as i grew older, my jobs included feeding calves, milking in the a.m. and p.m. , cutting, tetting, raking and baling hay, hauling hay. Then as i got even older, my jobs were to milk, sew hay, feed calves, de-horn, (farmers know what that is), give shots, move cattle, plow, disc, sub-soil, spread manure with the spreader, keep the holding pen clean, help my neighbors with above things . I had a choice to make in 1990. I could carry on the family business of milking or using my degree to make thrice the money. I chose the money. A new four lane highway cut our farm exactly in half and in 1995 my father retired which meant the dairy was over. The bright spot is , he has been been retired nearly ten years, he has money in the bank, i have a good job. But if i had a dollar for everytime i wished i could de-horn, or rake or bale or feed baby calves again, i wouldn't be rich, but i would have a chunk of change. I will never ever forget the values instilled in me and the beliefs i have. I may be a "fatboy", but i have always worked hard and always will. I appreciate any farmers out there to continue to be controlled by the government. Yes the government. Seen all those GOT MILK? ads?
The dairy farmers pay for those. That expense comes right out of their checks before they ever see them. I guess it is supposed to help advertise, but they had no say so in it. Growing up, there was four dairy farms in my direct area. Now, none. Sign of the times. God Bless Farmer, my heart is with you.
Fatboy, not to change the subject or make light of the situation but can I ask a question? I was also raised on a farm & have cut, raked, baled, & hauled hay, but what is tetting? (yes, I also know what de-horning is) Maybe we did it, just called it something else. Please enlighten me. Thanks PS I got one of the Sam Heaton rods yesterday that you are so proud of. It is sweet! I went with a 9 footer since I already had an 11' B'n'M. Thanks again

fatboy
11-15-2004, 07:45 AM
Hawkman, Jerry Blake brought me another 12 footer to the tourney with a small microspin spinning reel on it and the first fish i caught the other day was on it. I believe if a fish even breathes on the line, i can feel it. A tetter is used after cutting hay. I looks like four big circles with rake teeth on it spinning horizontally with the ground that scatters the hay so it can dry faster before raking. We didn't always use one, but i would say the last 10 to 12 years we did and it sped up the drying time with not having as much "green" hay to clog up the Vermeer round baler. I am sure you know what i am talking about. Ours was GEHL brand. The only thing on our farm that wasn't John Deere was the tetter, the round baler and the H model farmall that we used to rake with. Everything else was JD. I still think to this day that Vermeer makes the tightest bales even though JD has came a long way from the bar type balers. Take care.

hawkman
11-16-2004, 07:08 PM
Yeah, I've seen those, don't think we ever had one. It's been, well lets just say a long time, since I was a farm boy. They didn't even have round balers then. My father got out of farming & I went to work in a furniture plant. Big mistake, but that was what everyone did around here back then, like the coal mines in West Virginia or automobile plants in Detroit. I didn't know the free trade agreement had affected the farmers that much but imports have decimated the textile & furniture industries locally.I won't say which furniture co. I work for but it is located in THOMASVILLE, North Carolina. When my plant closed 2 years ago I was transferred to another plant for 7 months then to a facility where all we do is work on the imports. We inspect, repair, & re-finish, whatever is necessary to bring them up to our standards. Some people say I am just helping to take other people's jobs but the way I see it I didn't have much choice. After 33 years in the furniture business I didn't know anything else, & I need to keep my job, I have bills to pay & a daughter starting college next year. Oh well, think I'll go fishing & forget about all this.

hambone
11-16-2004, 08:24 PM
i agree that farmers need help making ends meet. i know that when i go to the store and i check out that if we did not help out the farmers what would we be paying? it sure would be a heck of alot more. keep up the good work.

cspen
11-16-2004, 09:45 PM
Guys from what has been passed down from my family,farming has never been that profitable.On a good note the local cattle prices have been alot better for the last year.I know this makes it tuff on all the families out of work because of our leaders wonderful plan of global economy.[I got hit to Alcatel].But it has been nice to actually make some good supplemental income.

PS Thats what we call fishing money :)

Shellback
11-17-2004, 07:36 AM
I imagine what you folks are talking about is a Hay Tedder, not Tetter. I'd never heard of a tetter but sure know what a tedder is.

Roberta
11-17-2004, 11:25 AM
The county we live in has revenue that is almost entirely ag-based. Our 114 year old farmhouse only has two acres attached to it npw, but at one time, it came with large portion of this section (a square mile to you urbanites). That land is all farmed by a neighbor up on the next road .He's relatively diversified and has been a good neighbor. I'd like it if he would let us know in advance when he's spraying herbicides since I garden organically, but other than that, no complaints.
The same can't be said about the mostly foreign-owned megafarms that are taking over this part of Ohio. They keep these huge, stinking manure pits that hold the output of hundreds of pigs or cattle and millions of chickens. They lower our property values, yet they get the same subsidies as our neighbors. That's not right.
What also isn't right is rising meat and milk prices when those prices are going to processors and not the farmers.
It's no wonder so many people are getting out of it.

I recall a senate subcommittee hearing some years ago when the dairy farmer testifying couldn't get through their thick skulls that cows have to be milked twice daily, seven days a week, 365 days a year. Can you imagine how many people would go into politics with schedules like that? - Roberta

crappiefarmer
11-17-2004, 11:00 PM
Roberta,

You are absolutly right and as long as our government allows large scale consolidation (monopolies) to continue, so will the building of these huge corporate hog farms and their huge corporate manure ponds. They say these huge farms are more efficient but when you go to the grocery store pork is higher than its ever been and everything else as far as that goes. If you go to the Chicago board of trade, hog prices are in the toilet for the farmers. Thats the problem with alot of these trade deals that our government says will help consumers. The only ones that are benefiting from them are the huge corporations. The doors get opened on imports, flooding the markets and then the corporations will instead of dropping their prices to match the drop of raw materials, stay flat or raise their prices . Don't think that farmers are getting paid good because grocery store prices are high. Something is bad wrong with our food industry but I'm afraid as far as public attention goes its like turning up the heat on a pot with a frog in it. As long as its done slow the frog (we) won't notice. I don't have a problem with someone making a buck but when they are threatening the backbone of this country which can't support it's self now because of those same ones, I think something needs to be done soon and the public needs to become aware. Farmers raising a few hogs on a field did not stink up a whole area like this huge operations do today. Back then, prices were high enough that a farmer could raise a few hogs and make a little money but not now. Someone figured out how to take the profit away from farmers and consolodate it. I know alot of those operators have had to change their operations because of the big pork company demands and control by contracts. Raising hogs is what they do and can't see themselves doing anything else. I have those same sentiments myself with our operation. It's just sad that it has to be done that way. I pray the public becomes educated more on aggriculture and what has and is happening. CF

herb
11-18-2004, 01:27 PM
I have to say I have of a lot of respect for most farmers, especially the dairy farmers. Yes, someone has to be there morning AND night, and most times in between. I do have a problem with some off site land owners recieving subsidy checks when the real reason they purchased the farm ground in the first place was as a tax write-off. 'note-some of them'
We have been doing our own butchering for many years. We have friends who still raise pasture pigs and cattle for this purpose. We ussually pay a higher price, but at least we know where it came from and who's handling it. Now I read in the paper that several Republicans in DC are going to repeal the Country of Origin Labeling Law. Could this be payback time for all the big Ag Corporations that don't care what country they get their products from? As a consumer, I feel I have a right to know where my fruit and veggies, and the grain for my cherrios comes from. Any one else feel this way? As for confinements hogs, you can make me smell it but you can't make me eat it. We're surrounded by confinements and on most humid hot summer days, you can't hang wash out to dry let alone open your windows. I know they are trying to cut down on the odor, and progress is being made. I hope it continues. My next concern is manure application on the ground and how much is too much as far as ground water pollution is concerned?
I remember several years ago when the bottom dropped out of the hog market, and the gov.-tax payer came to the rescue with a per hog relief check. Nobody could make any money with hogs but that sure didn't stop the confinement buildings from going up. I really hate to make this look like I'm picking on any certain entity of the farming community. Please go back to my first sentence in this post.
But what the public sees, or smells is what they remember.

Roberta
11-18-2004, 03:57 PM
That an excellant series on PBS a few years ago.I'd like to watch it again. It really showed how marginal profits can be and unpredictable yields are thanks to weather conditions. What really hit home was the big lie that the government and petrochemical companies have foisted on the agbusiness about what to grow and how to grow it. They painted farmers into a corner with their loans and promises of high yields to the point that the local farmer gave up raising his own family's food, for the most part. It seems crazy to this old gardener that a farmer's wife wouldn't raise food for her family , too, rather than buying it at the store, but you'll see very few kitchen gardens around here unless the place belongs to a Mennonite..

When it comes to subsidies, I'd give them to guys who run free-range small livestock holdings, rotate with natural cover to encourage wildlife, and leave their fence rows in place. Around here, I know we would save a bundle in snow removal expenses if fence rows were still standing. Proof: every poperty with fence or trees along the road has little or no snow blow across that road.

And I wouldn't permit subsidies for these Dutch dairy farmers and German egg producers that foul our air. -

Oh, - I know you'll appreciate this - after one of the loca lguys was badly injured in a farming accident, over 100 guys brought their combines, grain hoppers and trucks to take in the injured man's crop. Find another business tha twould do that for their competitor. -Roberta

herb
11-18-2004, 04:58 PM
Roberta, that same thing happened when my wife's brother was taken from us. Shows how great the farming community can really be.

Don G
11-18-2004, 05:18 PM
That an excellant series on PBS a few years ago.I'd like to watch it again. It really showed how marginal profits can be and unpredictable yields are thanks to weather conditions. What really hit home was the big lie that the government and petrochemical companies have foisted on the agbusiness about what to grow and how to grow it. They painted farmers into a corner with their loans and promises of high yields to the point that the local farmer gave up raising his own family's food, for the most part. It seems crazy to this old gardener that a farmer's wife wouldn't raise food for her family , too, rather than buying it at the store, but you'll see very few kitchen gardens around here unless the place belongs to a Mennonite..

When it comes to subsidies, I'd give them to guys who run free-range small livestock holdings, rotate with natural cover to encourage wildlife, and leave their fence rows in place. Around here, I know we would save a bundle in snow removal expenses if fence rows were still standing. Proof: every poperty with fence or trees along the road has little or no snow blow across that road.

And I wouldn't permit subsidies for these Dutch dairy farmers and German egg producers that foul our air. -

Oh, - I know you'll appreciate this - after one of the loca lguys was badly injured in a farming accident, over 100 guys brought their combines, grain hoppers and trucks to take in the injured man's crop. Find another business tha twould do that for their competitor. -Roberta


Doris & I were vacationing out west a couple of years back and stopped for breakfast in a small town in Wyoming. We talked with a young lady that owned a craft shop and she told us a very interesting story. Her great grandfather had past down the farm thru generations to her dad and the farm raised sugar beets. I thought all beets were raised in the South, wrong. Anyway, they had made a nice living and were able to hold on to the farm until a couple of bad years had them on the ropes. A Japanese man came in and bought the farm. They got a real good price but we are talking thousands of acres. In fact some of his relatives came over from Japan & bought surrounding farms. They built huge homes(we saw a couple) in the middle of the farms and sugar beets are no longer raised there....Sad story!!

Second story: When I was a young boy,in MS, we had a State Senator,(D) James O. Eastland that owned a huuuuuuge plantation in the MS Delta. This is prime cotton country. He never showed up at the farm but was paid Federal money "not" to grow cotton. I never did understand why and maybe some of the farmers that are on this board could explain it to me. I am pro farmer as my greatgrandfather and grandfather passed their farm down to my mother and now to me. I was not raised on a farm so I don't know one thing about running one. All I do is pay taxes on it each..Oh well, so far it's still in the family like mother wanted it to be.

My grandfather was a tomato farmer and I never knew him to receive money to help out.

crappiefarmer
11-18-2004, 10:14 PM
Don G,

that payment to not grow cotton was called payment in kind program and what it was designed for was to keep from having overproduction. you were given a set number of acres to grow and you were paid a good price on all commodities (market and subsidies combined at the end of the year) that you had to live off of. If you had 1000 acres the government would only allow you to grow on 800 of those acres and leave the rest idle. Farmers liked that program because you were getting the same amount of money off of 800 acres as you would have gotten off of the 1000 acres. That made you even more money because of the reduction in production costs. Now we have to plant ditchbank to ditchbank in crops and have to take heavier subsidies because of the current farm bill that encourages overproduction. So actually tax payers are subsidising us more now than they used to when we were paid not to grow crops and just grow enough for what the country actually needed. We are forcasted to bring in around 21 million bales of cotton this year and are only going to use 6 million bales. The rest will have to be exported. 15 years ago we only grew around 16 million bales and used 12 million bales here at home so we only had to export 4 million bales. What has happend? Well the free trade deals have droped tarriffs on textiles and has opened a flood gate from China ( been to Wal mart lately?) and has drove over half the textile mills here out of business. That loss of market share has gone to China ( Made in China). Thats what trade deals have done for textile workers. Ross Perot said back when he was running for president that we would hear a giant sucking sound from these free trade deals and that sound would be american jobs being sucked away over seas. Man was he right. Buy U.S. grown, U.S. made, It matters! There were clauses put in these bills that if american jobs were hurt on a large scale that the deals could be changed but our politicians are being paid off by the corporations that are benefiting from these deals too good to want to do that. I probably sound like an anti capitalist liberal but I am a conservative. I listen to Rush Limbaugh alot and agree with alot of the things he says but when he talks about Farm subsidies he knows jack crap. He still thinks we get paid not to grow crops and that hasn't been the case since around 1990. That makes me wonder what else is he wrong about? He needs to stick with politics. I know people either like him or hate him but I mentioned him because he has an audience of 20,000,000 that he is saying these things to and alot of people (the majority) don't know any better. Don, sorry to make this so long. So much of this stuff is connected and just goes on and on. CF

Don G
11-19-2004, 07:47 AM
Don G,

that payment to not grow cotton was called payment in kind program and what it was designed for was to keep from having overproduction. you were given a set number of acres to grow and you were paid a good price on all commodities (market and subsidies combined at the end of the year) that you had to live off of. If you had 1000 acres the government would only allow you to grow on 800 of those acres and leave the rest idle. Farmers liked that program because you were getting the same amount of money off of 800 acres as you would have gotten off of the 1000 acres. That made you even more money because of the reduction in production costs. Now we have to plant ditchbank to ditchbank in crops and have to take heavier subsidies because of the current farm bill that encourages overproduction. So actually tax payers are subsidising us more now than they used to when we were paid not to grow crops and just grow enough for what the country actually needed. We are forcasted to bring in around 21 million bales of cotton this year and are only going to use 6 million bales. The rest will have to be exported. 15 years ago we only grew around 16 million bales and used 12 million bales here at home so we only had to export 4 million bales. What has happend? Well the free trade deals have droped tarriffs on textiles and has opened a flood gate from China ( been to Wal mart lately?) and has drove over half the textile mills here out of business. That loss of market share has gone to China ( Made in China). Thats what trade deals have done for textile workers. Ross Perot said back when he was running for president that we would hear a giant sucking sound from these free trade deals and that sound would be american jobs being sucked away over seas. Man was he right. Buy U.S. grown, U.S. made, It matters! There were clauses put in these bills that if american jobs were hurt on a large scale that the deals could be changed but our politicians are being paid off by the corporations that are benefiting from these deals too good to want to do that. I probably sound like an anti capitalist liberal but I am a conservative. I listen to Rush Limbaugh alot and agree with alot of the things he says but when he talks about Farm subsidies he knows jack crap. He still thinks we get paid not to grow crops and that hasn't been the case since around 1990. That makes me wonder what else is he wrong about? He needs to stick with politics. I know people either like him or hate him but I mentioned him because he has an audience of 20,000,000 that he is saying these things to and alot of people (the majority) don't know any better. Don, sorry to make this so long. So much of this stuff is connected and just goes on and on. CF


I really enjoyed your post. It was a very informative eye opener. Like I said, I never new much about farm matters but maybe all of us should pay a little more attention. Our state of VA has been hit hard by the closing of textile mills and furniture factories. A close friend is VP of Pulaski Furniture and he told me that over 90% of their furniture is now made in China. I guess everything is made in China.

I remember, in the 50s & early 60s that a Browning shoutgun cost the same at a Mom & Pop store as it did a large sporting goods store. I think I liked that better. All the small town hardware,clothing and other businesses are just about gone. Is there any place better than an old small town hardware store? Man what you can find in a place like that. I can hardly stand to go in Walmart but where else is there. I buy American made products when I can find them and always will.

Again, I enjoyed your post and if you have a couple of rainy days I think all on this board would enjoy another....Take care...

Roberta
11-19-2004, 08:13 AM
We pay farmers in the deep south, where cotton grows well, NOT to grow it, but pay to divert precious water to irrigate the deserts of Arizona and Southern California to they WILL grow it!

When I'm gorcery shopping, I buy Frontier Brand sugar because it is made from sugar beets grown here in Ohio and processed in Findlay (home of Ben Roethlisberger). Buying local is about the best thing you can do for your farming neighbors. We used to buy our meat in bulk, but now there's no local slaughterhouse. How sad is that?

Speaking of farming conglomerates, a Dutch company has just applied for a 4,500 head dairy herd housed in buildings covering over 5 acres with a manure output estimated at 4.5 million gallons annually. I'm no animal rights fan, but I do think that livestock should be raised humanely. I fail to see how forcing an animal to live on a concrete floor for its entire existence, never setting foot to the fine pasture we have here, is humane. I wonder how much of our tax dollar will be allocated to this outfit.
Oh, something else, Tyson has bought out the local hog breeders and producers group. Yippee. - Roberta

Don G
11-19-2004, 08:48 AM
We pay farmers in the deep south, where cotton grows well, NOT to grow it, but pay to divert precious water to irrigate the deserts of Arizona and Southern California to they WILL grow it!

When I'm gorcery shopping, I buy Frontier Brand sugar because it is made from sugar beets grown here in Ohio and processed in Findlay (home of Ben Roethlisberger). Buying local is about the best thing you can do for your farming neighbors. We used to buy our meat in bulk, but now there's no local slaughterhouse. How sad is that?

Speaking of farming conglomerates, a Dutch company has just applied for a 4,500 head dairy herd housed in buildings covering over 5 acres with a manure output estimated at 4.5 million gallons annually. I'm no animal rights fan, but I do think that livestock should be raised humanely. I fail to see how forcing an animal to live on a concrete floor for its entire existence, never setting foot to the fine pasture we have here, is humane. I wonder how much of our tax dollar will be allocated to this outfit.
Oh, something else, Tyson has bought out the local hog breeders and producers group. Yippee. - Roberta


when they stopped paying farmers not to go cotton some strange things happened. Have you heard of "Tunica" MS? Tunica is on the MS River and was at one time in the middle of the old Southern Plantation area. Due to some crazy laws in MS you can't have a gambling establishment on dry ground.. Enter Samstown, Paradise Island and others. The locals say "are we going to the boats tonight". This levee on the MS River is now full of gambling casinos. Now the local middle class has a short drive to go and lose their money. They are building a 4 lane hiway from Memphis to Tunica to handle the traffiic. You probably are not interested in this but Hwy 61 from Memphis heading south is the old Blues Hwy. There is a lot of history that will be lost along with a lot of money. What a shame. We have a Duck Camp in Rosedale, just south of Tunica, and we can see a real difference from the way it was years back.

Oh yea, all the tax money will go for education. You know, a lot of people really believe this.

Rena Lara was a beautiful place in its time but now is just a crossroad. No evidence of the past.

I'm through.....Have a nice day

crap-king
11-19-2004, 09:04 AM
People do not realize Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer - he voices his opinions on political mattersc- he is no expert on anything - he showed this on ESPN's Football Show - he was still giving his opinions (which he is entitled to)just in that format those guys want let you express your true feelings - and if the truth is known he is not giving you his true feelings on his political show - he is giving you what will stur people up and get then to listen - If you think Rush is offensive try to catch the Neal Borst Show or Micheal Savage - these guys are worse than Don Rickles when it comes to offending people - and they offend everyone - just the democrats catch the brunt of it
crap-king

Barnacle Bill
11-19-2004, 09:22 AM
That is exactly why I quit listening to all of them. Bottom line, they are all concerned about one thing - their ratings! Besides, its a lot more fun (and educational) to come here and argue about which fishing line is best.

herb
11-19-2004, 03:00 PM
Good point. Pretty easy to get too worked up over some things. BTW, was listening to Paul Harvey today and he was praising the Brits for banning fox hunting and how this would make his good friend Cleveland Amory so happy. I think I'm done listening to him too.

hawkman
11-22-2004, 05:15 PM
I have a friend that raised corn that he fed to hogs which were then sold for a little extra money. A few years back he quit this, said he could make more just selling the corn to deer hunters without all the added work.

crap-king
11-25-2004, 08:45 AM
I have a friend that raised corn that he fed to hogs which were then sold for a little extra money. A few years back he quit this, said he could make more just selling the corn to deer hunters without all the added work.
Selling deer corn has become big business in Stokes Co
crap-king